[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

[Mattrman]

I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

[Guest]

Mike the confusion is that on Adobe part thinking we will all get on your stupid cloud.

[oldschoolmx]

I'm embarassed for you Adobe. This is apalling. I have spent close to 20k in Adobe software over the past 20 years...and have owned nearly every app you've ever made. I was even an authorized Adobe trainer.

But this? It's just complete sleaziness. And if you cross this rubicon it will be the beginning of the end for Adobe. The utter contempt that you are showing towards your customer base will create a psunami of bad will which will ultimately sink the company.

Imagine a scenario where you built yourself a house…but where when you stopped renting your carpentry tools…then you weren’t permitted to inhabit your own house anymore. Imagine! Locked out of your own house by the vendor who rented you the tools. That’s beyond absurd isn’t it? Isn’t it!?

But that’s the exact same scenario here. My files are my work. It’s my effort. My perspiration. My ideas…But because I used Adobe’s tools…I’m forever at the mercy of their gatekeping to be able to access my stuff. And sorry, but accessing them in some read-only state is nothing but an insult.

I will never agree to this and will become an anti-Adobe evangelist if this policy persists.

[Trevor.Dennis]

oldschoolmx says he has spent $20k with Adobe in the last 20 years, but is unhappy about the Cloud.  That works out at $1000/year.  Why isn't he overjoyed to have the entire Creative Cloud suite for just $600/ year from now on out?

[oldschoolmx]

Trevor I owned a lot more than just master suite. I paid $4k for Authorware a decade ago. I've owned every version of Adobe Director. And I've owned multiple copies of apps for my employees. Until now I've given Adobe a lot of my money. The spigot is going to be shut down.

I will absolutely not be renting moving forward. I will not allow Adobe to be a gatekeeper who can lock me out of my work.

This is not a short term monetary decision for me. This is about coercion. Extortion, really. This weekend I've already begun buying my Adobe alternatives: Pixelmator, Tumult Hype and Final Cut Pro.

[kinvermark_II]

Add me to the now VERY LONG LIST of disgruntled long-term Adobe customers!

Here's why:

I own CS6 master collection.  Over time my upgrade costs have been around  $35.00 per month.  For example, I used cs5 from December 1, 2010 until April 24, 2012 (17 months) when I upgraded to cs6 for 549.00 (via cs5.5 deal).  That works out to 32.29 per month.    The new price will be some kind of weighted average between 19.99 per month for the first year, and 49.99 (and likely up!) after that. 

This really is quite a large increase in cost over time.  Also, I don't feel that the value of the cs6 suite that I own is reflected in the current Adobe offerings.  I know it has value, because I can continue to use it, but that is about as reassuring as a slowly sinking boat in the middle of the Ocean... time to start swimming

Mark Wilson

PS If I was a new user faced with paying 2600.00 for cs6 master, I can certainly see how 49.99 per month would be appealing. But I am not a new user, I am a long term loyal customer!

[Greg_Bohn]

> But I am not a new user, I am a long term loyal customer!

  It would appear that Adobe thinks that 'Loyal Customers' are too much work.

  It's easier to have constrained customers instead...

[bobmepp]

Exactly. I am one of the new customers. $49.99 is OK with me because of that. But, by your analysis, and I think it is correct: the right price for CC should be about $39 per month. Individual apps should be about $15 per month. This would make Adobe's prices proportionally in line with the prices MS is asking for Office subscriptions. Adobe should probably consider a special long term lower rate of about $30 to $35 per month for the long term users (say those who have upgraded 4x since CS came out). I don't think Adobe, for many reasons, regardless of the complaints or the intensity of the complaints, will ever go back to the old upgrade system because they have been too heavily ripped off by pirates over the years. I disagree with those who minimize piracy as an issue--I think it is a huge drain on revenue for any large software company, so when complaining, don't forget to save a little of your wrath for the thieves.

[Guest]

I think that 4 per moth is still way too high people should be able to spend when they can. not every month some times we are lean tother times not. if we have the money and want the features we spend. If we do not we dont. As for piracy that is not money lost it is money they would have never got. What it has raelly been is a way for pople to learn the softweare and get jobs using it and they companies buy. Kids and hobyist is not a revenue loss Pissing us off is a revenue loss

[ahimktg1962]

Sure, piracy has always been an issue with software and likely will continue to be. This model may possibly minimize piracy and help Adobe's bottom line. Let's say for the sake of argument that cloud distribution eliminates 100% of piracy revenue loss. Why then should users, including many long time customers (20 years for me,) be forced to pay MUCH higher prices to use the software?

[bobmepp]

That's why I said that Adobe should consider reducing their prices. My figures are only my own thought as to what is fair. Sorry, I meant this to also be a reply to 001andrew. If you think $40 per month is too high, then name a figure that you think is fair--$30, $20, $10, $1? Because I predict again--they will never go back to selling licenses, so, give them an idea of what you want. Some price is fair and the equivalent of the cost of the legacy license system -- say what you think it is.

I would add this hypothetical question: If I have a refund of some kind of overpayment coming to me, an overpayment of which I was not aware, and someone hacks into that account and redirects the refund to themselves, then it is not a theft from me since I wasn't aware of it and never received it?

[gepkes]

Thieves? LOL! Newby. Do you even know what you are talking about?

With the last several Creative Suite versions (if you've even used them) pirating was a non-issue as the software would NOT launch more then 2 seats per "serial server activation". If your computer crashed and the software could not be deactivated that serial would not launch on anoher system unless an Adobe rep stepped in an canceled out that seat.

In other words, if I have CS6 with the 2 seats that it allows and I give my serial number to someone else one copy of CS6 will NOT launch on my seat and so therefore it would not be benifical for me to give out my serial.

If someone sold a serial number that belongs to them or someone else the proper owner could deactivate remotely and the loser there is not Adobe but the new user of the serial number. That would be a crime between the seller and the buyer.

So it DOES NOT matter if I downloaded it off some server for free because its not the softeware your using, its the serial number. Furthermore, anybody downloading the software off some server as apposed to just downloading a trial off Adobe's website is wasting their time as the trial can be activated at any time but only if you have the same magic serial number. SO, Mr Sneaky Pirate is really Mr. Fool because it makes no difference where you get the software. You could also download the software off pirating some server and use your own serial number and it would be legit according to Adobe and the law but what would be the point in doing that?

If you say that pirating can still take place by someone giving away one of their seats then that can also be said about the Creative Cloud.

[rosequill]

There have always been ways to disable server activation. Bluntly put, you're wrong gepkes. Serials don't mean much to people who really intend to steal the product.

[gepkes]

Bluntly put, I'm right.

You can steal the software but you can't steal the serial and the serial is what you are buying not the software.

The last severel editions of Creative Suite required intermittent server checks to authorize the serial in the same way the Creative Cloud will. Without a serial you have no software.

I'm aware of the temporary server supression techniques but Adobe has gotten around those.

[gepkes]

I say that because CS6 is basicly the same thing as Creative Cloud except that you subsribe to the serial instead of owning it.

I've own boxed Adobe software since Illustrator 88 and CS6 allowed me to download the software, for the serial purchased, off the "cloud" with the option to recieve the box for an extra $10. I planned to buy the box but never did because I ripped the install disk. The download system for which I aquired CS6 is the Cloud. So, to put it bluntly, your wrong Mr Rosequill.

If pirating were to be a problem with CS6 then it will be with CC as well.

[Kwan Parker]

Piracy is no longer the problem.  Never was.  The issue was and will always be  how to reduce costs and maximize profits

.IMHO, Adobe thinks they've found the perfect model.  Control and manage the market. Kinda monopolistic, might DOJ think?   Maybe not.  We'll see, should DOJ find reason to file for something like, restraint of trade.  Don't know, but Adobe has pretty much eliminated all competition, which kinda makes their business suspect.

Looking forward to might come out of a federal grand jury.

[gepkes]

Kwan Parker... BINGO. You hit it. Piracy is being used as an excuse because most media writers dont have any idea of what they are talking about and therefor will write what ever they are told to write.

[bobmepp]

Yes, thieves. I don't claim to have whatever technical knowledge you have, but I stand by that choice of words. My knowledge is based on the endless ads for photoshop etc in my spam folder. I presume those individuals are running a "business", and I doubt very much that they are benefitting me or anyone else who is honest, and I also doubt that they are official Adobe reps.

[Picturequest]

As Mick Jagger sang... Hey, you get off of my cloud!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3F4GmbHl5g

[Guest]

you will be all by yourself on that cloud. Adobe is desperate for this to work and needs volume or wall street will burry them.

PS i am not and never will be on your goofball cloud

[Andy_Bay]

"Being in the cloud" is actually quite descriptive for the system Adobe wants you to join.

There are other dealers who sell you a similar promise. Start using with little or no money and after you hooked the price goes up and there is no escape.

[W_J_T]

Another petition to join for those interested (saw it in another recent post on the forum):

Ask Department Of Justice to investigate Adobe Systems, Inc. recent announcement to change its software license to subscription-only.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/ask-doj-investigate-adobe-systems-inc-recent-announcement-...

[@cesarqueb_]

Maybe Adobe must to considers offers a perpetual license for customer that has one year paying a license, same as you rent a car for one year with option to purchase a definitive owner license.. I think this is possible.. why? You are being paying for one year and you are a trusted customer.

Regards

César Qüeb

[Mattrman]

Hi Mike, thanks for the answer. Appreciated. For my work I am offline and the computer that I do my work on does not go online. It creates a problem for me to have my work computer go online every 30 days or 180 days for that matter. Is there some thought for this situation? The previous licensing arrangement worked fine. This forces me into a position that is not optimum, based on what I am seeing online this may be the case for others as well. I sincerely hope this is being looked into as a possible big mistake.

The above statement speaks for the other 20 or 30 people who I work with as well.

best, Matt

[Daryl Barnes]

You have a work computer that does not access the internet for 6 months?  You mean you don't have any work email and never even do a google search? Wow.  I feel your pain but I would imagine there are very few creative professionals (and amateurs for that matter) that wouldn't be able to be online just once every 6 months to validate they have a subscription.  Especially in this day and age.  So for 99.9% of people, I can't see that particular thing being a problem at all.

[Daryl Barnes]

In fact, to add to my previous post, most people's objections I have seen were because of their mistaken assumption that the Creative Cloud involved having to be constantly connected to the internet.  And many people believe the apps are actually hosted in the cloud!  None of that is true.  We've been very happy so far with Creative Cloud because with CC we've seen much faster release updates with new and better features and bug fixes than in the past and this has allowed us to create better results for our clients faster.  We've increased our profitability, the fixes and updates make the tools more enjoyable to use, our clients are happier, and Adobe can just concentrate on making great products and improving them regularly rather than making some big splashy marketing push every two years just to make it seem worth upgrading.... with no ongoing feedback they get with the frequent CC releases.  And of course this means they get to see more regular income rather than big swings up and down depending on if its a release month/year or not and all the uncertainty involved in that type of release schedule.   Sounds like a WIN-WIN-WIN situation to me.

As for the pricing, its cheaper than the Master Collection was (unless you don't update for about 4 years) plus provides access to more apps and features than the MC ever did. But if you're still using 4 year old software in the web industry in particular, I really feel sorry for you and your clients.  It's like the companies that force their employees to use IE6 in 2013. 

Basically, the web and basically all things digital arew advancing far too fast for Adobe to stick to the old slow method of updating software every 2 years.  By that time, whatever they had been working on over the 2 years could already be obsolete when it is released.

One of my favorite things about modern software and agile development is how fast updates and bug fixes come.  I open the App Store on my iPhone and there are always a bunch of apps waiting to be updated often with cool new features and bug fixes.   Adobe themselves realized they needed to either get with the times or be left behind.  And incidentally, the same applies to you and your business as well. 

And this might sound harsh but if you aren't making enough money to be able to afford $49 a month for ALL the tools you need to do pretty much ANY kind of creative work a client may ask for, it might be time for you to change to another line of work.  Heck, the guy who does yard work in my neighborhood spends more than that a month on his tools.  🙂