Why We're Not Signing Up To Adobe Creative Cloud.

[chrisgavin2]

I've spent quite a lot of time looking at the implications of the new 'Creative Cloud' deal for our company. I have decided that for us, it's a very BAD deal indeed...

1: As a UK company the list price for Creative Cloud %152 the US price. CC for teams here works out at $102/user/month. The exact same software and online solution for half as much again as US users are being asked for. We can't see any justification for this market segmentation. Adobe software has always cost a lot more to worldwide users outside the US marketplace, but with a 'cloud-based' product delivered entirely online (under the new CC regime) how on Earth, can these price differences continue to be justified?

2: Creative Cloud for teams is being charged at a considerably higher rate than for individuals. Buying numerous seats and being a loyal customer will actually cost a lot more than the per-seat price for individual users. The 'Teams' offer does include increased cloud storage, but we just don't need this, and don't expect to be charged more per seat for the priviledge of being a multi-user customer.

3: Subscription at the advertised rates is not only too  expensive, it just doesn't suit us at all. As many have said before, we upgrade our software when we can afford it. Our business is sporadic, so we prefer to be in control of our spending. The subsciption model represents a constant drain on our resources. If Adobe want to offer a subscription model, then that's fine for those that might want it, but the option to buy software shouldn't be withdrawn from the customers who prefer to purchase their software outright.

4: Creative Cloud includes a lot of things we don't need. We don't actually need to be paying Adobe for cloud storage of our projects. We didn't ask for 100GB of cloud storage per team user, and we certainly shouldn't be paying for it out of our software spend.

5: Monopolistic Behaviour. With customers on a monthly subscription, Adobe can and  will introduce features and increase prices at a pace to suit themselves. As customers, we lose control of how much software we buy and how often. The subscription model of tied-in customers is just bad for us and cetainly bad for innovation and competition in the marketplace.

I encourage users to make their opinions known to Adobe about the new scheme and I sincerely hope that Adobe will give serious consideration to the legitimate concerns of their user-base.

I look forward to the retraction of the 'cloud only' decision soon.

Chris.

[Rosa Brand]

John Wykes wrote:

I am not too sure if there is sarcasm in your comment or not.  $50 per month is $600 per year.  If you can't stand paying $600 per year, then just set aside in cast $50 every month and then by the end of the year you have $600.  In any event, I upgraded every two or three years at a cost of $700.  So that's $700 over a three year period instead of $1800 over a three year period.  I don't know about you, but $700 is so much easier on my finances than $1800.

And then there are people like myself who would otherwise never afford $700 outright to get a business going. In truth, there is no one perfect solution for everyone. However, by making the products accessible via a subscription, Adobe opens door to more clients like myself. And considering that only a few could afford the suite (and I use nearly everything in the Creative Suite for my business) back in the day, they have exponentially increased their revenue and open doors for creatives globally at the same time. They may lose some customers who insist that they'd rather pay a lump sum, but the advantages of making the programs available via a monthly fee clearly out-way the disadvantages of a subscription.

The major advantage I see to Adobe’s CC is the fact I will get more features and fixes on a consistent basis. I already pay monthly fees for video games and on-line content. The concerns expressed have to do with value for your money. Time will only tell as we see how Adobe handles their future deliverables and what new features they add. Our world is becoming more and more technologically advanced (which I think we can all agree is a good thing). With the advent of the CC, Adobe is now positioned to improve their products dynamically in order to keep up with emerging technologies. And the best part of all, they make it affordable in the short-term to those of us still learning and climbing the creative ladder. That means more talented people sharing their work, better opportunities to partner with people internationally, and collaborate on projects to help each creative person grow. What is the alternative?

Corel? Give me a break. The other unacceptable alternative would be piracy.

No thanks.

I signed up for their subscription back when it was over $150/mo, because I couldn't afford to pay thousands of dollars. So when I saw my bill go down and learned of Adobe's new publishing approach, I was ecstatic. I could finally be creative at home, where before I had to go into the office and use a work computer…if I got permission. I have been an Adobe Creative Suite subscriber for two years now and have grown by leaps and bounds as an artist and can finally start my own business. Sure, you can fork out the money to buy it outright, but people like me can’t.

Added quote.

[W_J_T]

RM Brand wrote:

- people like myself who would otherwise never afford $700 outright

- I signed up for their subscription back when it was over $150/mo

? Seems rather odd comparatively speaking concerning costs.

[Rosa Brand]

First off, there are some of us in the world who are really poor, as in barely scraping by to make ends meet. Before, I never could afford buying the Adobe programs for personal use to start my own ventures. I learned the programs via my nine-to-five and only used them while at work.

On occasion, my company was kind enough to let me stay late and work on personal projects. However, it wasn't an ideal situation, because I wanted to learn far more than time would permit after hours (I wasn't allowed to come in on the weekends to learn on my work computer). So my growth as a creative person was stunted because 1) I only worked on project unrelated to what I really wanted to learn, and 2) I had limited access to the programs.

Then Adobe started offering subscriptions at $150/mo. It was a big chunk of money per month and I thought I would only afford two at most, but I was fortunate because the price went drastically down two months later. I never could have afforded the Creative Suite under the old system and had Adobe maintained that system, I would still be frustrated at a desk job doing other things than what I really want to do. Now, I am able to learn, grow, create and produce products I never dreamt possible before. Ten years ago, if you had told me I would be a producer for a documentary, I would have laughed. But I am doing it! I am no Spielberg or Hurlbut, but I'm learning more and more each day. And I have Adobe to thank for that.

It may not be anything to you, but for me it is the world. I am living my dream because Adobe chose to make their products accessible to everyone, including us poor people who can't shell out $2,500 for software, but can easily dish out $30/mo.

This is the pricing model I'm looking at:

Adobe CC:

$30 x 12 mo. = $360/yr.

$360 x 3 yrs. = $1,080

Total cost in three years time: $1,080

Adobe Creative Suite Old Licensing Model:

$2,500/release

In another three years, update costs $1,500

Total cost in three years time: $4,000

I don't know what calculators you're using, but the numbers are pretty solid. I get more value for my money under the CC model than I ever did with the old Creative Suite licensing model.

And let us be clear...

You do not own the rights to the software. You only have permission to use it. That has always been the case.

Let me repeat...

You do not own the rights to the software. You only have permission to use it.

[Randall B Miller]

Very Well Stated! Adobe has been a special part of my life ever since 1988,

I owe my livelihood to them. And I see a bright future for me 25 years

later, all with their software making it possible.

[Rosa Brand]

rmdtulsa wrote:

Very Well Stated! Adobe has been a special part of my life ever since 1988,

I owe my livelihood to them. And I see a bright future for me 25 years

later, all with their software making it possible.

I look forward to seeing your work via the Create Now! Be sure to post your stuff on Adobe's twitter (@adobe) with the hashtag (#createnow).

[Guest]

Good for you.  I however, do not wish to spend $15,000 for my software (which is what you will be doing over the next 25 years -- but only if Adobe never ever increases the price.  If they do, it will be more than $15,000.  Perhaps like Europe, which is about $22,000 for the same time period, or Brazil, which is about $27,000 for the same time period)

[Jeff_Know1]

First off, there are some of us in the world who are really poor, as in barely scraping by to make ends meet. Before, I never could afford buying the Adobe programs for personal use to start my own ventures.

Renting is terrible when you're poor! You don't have the money to pay for a month? Tough luck, your programs won’t open anymore. This makes it even worse because you can’t get work done in order to make the monthly payments. When you buy something you can continue to use it and it will still have resell value if you decide to sell it.

I learned the programs via my nine-to-five and only used them while at work.

So don't give credit to the CC model.

Then Adobe started offering subscriptions at $150/mo. It was a big chunk of money per month and I thought I would only afford two at most, but I was fortunate because the price went drastically down two months later.

Wow, lets pay $150 a month even though you think you can only pay for two months.

I never could have afforded the Creative Suite under the old system

This subscription model is more expensive! You're logic is seriously flawed here. If you cannot save up to buy a normal Creative Suite license this CC model should absolutely terrify you...

Ten years ago, if you had told me I would be a producer for a documentary, I would have laughed. But I am doing it! I am no Spielberg or Hurlbut, but I'm learning more and more each day. And I have Adobe to thank for that.

No... you have your old company to thank for using the software after hours on personal projects. You did not just learn all these programs in the CC time span and suddenly find yourself being a producer for a documentary.

And if you would have told me ten years ago that Adobe was going to screw over its userbase I would have laughed as well.

It may not be anything to you, but for me it is the world. I am living my dream because Adobe chose to make their products accessible to everyone, including us poor people who can't shell out $2,500 for software, but can easily dish out $30/mo.

You wouldn't buy the $2,500 MASTERS COLLECTION if you're poor...  Get the standard edition, make some money with it, then upgrade later to the Masters Collection at a seriously reduced upgrade price if you want the rest of the programs. That's how upgrading works. No one was forcing you to get the Masters Collection all at once.

Adobe CC:

$30 x 12 mo. = $360/yr.

$360 x 3 yrs. = $1,080

Total cost in three years time: $1,080

30 dollars is your introduction price for the first year. So make that 1800 for three years at full price.

Adobe Creative Suite Old Licensing Model:

$2,500/release

In another three years, update costs $1,500

Total cost in three years time: $4,000

Once again, you do not start out by buying the Masters Collection if you cannot afford it... It's insane to compare the rental cost of CC to the complete Masters Collection if you couldn't afford it in the first place. It doesn't make any sense to think like this.

I don't know what calculators you're using, but the numbers are pretty solid. I get more value for my money under the CC model than I ever did with the old Creative Suite licensing model.

Yes, the numbers are indeed pretty solid.

You do not own the rights to the software. You only have permission to use it. That has always been the case.

I really hope you're a troll. I really really do.

[Butch_M]

RM Brand wrote:

You do not own the rights to the software. You only have permission to use it. That has always been the case.

Let me repeat...

You do not own the rights to the software. You only have permission to use it.

Yes ... but up until CC, Adobe did not place a time limitation for the permission to use ... That has not always been the case ...

[Guest]

Sorry, but let's take a look at your numbers.  I never bought the Master Collection because I do not need it.  With CC I will be forced to rent the equivalent of the Master Collection whether I wish to or not.  I bought Production Premium for about $1200.  Two years later I got an upgrade for $700.  I am happy with what I have and so have not upgraded nor do I wish to do so. 2008-2013 is a total of six years (I count 2008 as a full year because I bought Production Premium in January of that year).

Let's see -- $1200 plus $700 equals $1900 over a period of six years.  

Creative Cloud over the same time frame is $600 + $600 + $600 + $600 + $600 + $600 = $3600,

Which is greater -- $1900 or $3600? 

Hmmm.......

[Rosa Brand]

John Wykes wrote:

Sorry, but let's take a look at your numbers.  I never bought the Master Collection because I do not need it.  With CC I will be forced to rent the equivalent of the Master Collection whether I wish to or not.  I bought Production Premium for about $1200.  Two years later I got an upgrade for $700.  I am happy with what I have and so have not upgraded nor do I wish to do so. 2008-2013 is a total of six years (I count 2008 as a full year because I bought Production Premium in January of that year).

Let's see -- $1200 plus $700 equals $1900 over a period of six years.  

Creative Cloud over the same time frame is $600 + $600 + $600 + $600 + $600 + $600 = $3600,

Which is greater -- $1900 or $3600? 

Hmmm.......

I find it interesting that you are ignoring one line in my post.

I use everything in the creative suite. I didn't learn all of it on the job, only a fraction of it on the job. The rest I learned AFTER I got the subscription.

And yes, it is a lot more affordable for me, because I use all the software in the Master Suite (including After Effects, Premiere, Audition, Speedgrade, Bridge, Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, Lightroom, Media Encoder...). I design brochures, I create book covers, I composite videos, I edit videos, I produce large documents with complex layouts, I do my own color correction/grading, I design info graphics, on and on and on...

Actually, you know what...? My husband is right. You win. Nothing I could say will help you understand. So enjoy your victory cake. Meanwhile, I've got work to do.

[Butch_M]

RM Brand wrote:

And yes, it is a lot more affordable for me, because I use all the software in the Master Suite (including After Effects, Premiere, Audition, Speedgrade, Bridge, Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, Lightroom, Media Encoder...). I design brochures, I create book covers, I composite videos, I edit videos, I produce large documents with complex layouts, I do my own color correction/grading, I design info graphics, on and on and on...

IF that is true ... you are one in a million ... because the average user is far more likely not to become proficient  in ALL the aps available ... in other words ... you are the exception to the rule and not the average user ...

So ... to apply your personal appraisal of CC to all of the potential users of Adobe's products from here on out is ludicrous at best ...

Don't forget ... that all of us with whom you disagree made it possible for Adobe to offer you such an opportunity ... if it was not for our investment from the past several decades ... Adobe would not have the resources to offer the CC model ... it would not have happened if they had not garnered the profits from our purchases for perpetual licensing to have the means to allow you entry for your poultry monthly rental fees ...

So maybe you should not look upon us as having such a cavalier attitude ...

[pietv79413188]

And on top of that, you own the software, while in the creative cloud you have nothing, and your files you created yourselves are useless if you stop paying. A pure rip-off from a disgusting company. That is how Quark and MS once treated their clients, I think they learned their lesson.

[TadCh3va7]

I see nothing has changed to date but I suspect such a significant change will require long term results. I'm irate every time I receive email from Adobe telling me how they've improved the CC release because it's insane for me to start using it but improvements to the app certainly could be of benefit.

Again, for me going to CC is flat out stupid. I use Photoshop and non-Adobe apps daily; Illustrator infrequently. Weeks can go by w/o any need to use it (months at times even). When I do use it, at least half of the time I'm returning to something I already did. The pay-by-month or sorry, your Illustrator data is useless model is dysfunctional for me. (It would be for Photoshop as well depending on a variety of factors; even though I will probably always need to be able to work with my PS data in the future, getting locked into a pay-or-die system has nothing attractive about it.)

Keep hoping Adobe wakes up @ the problems their new app "sales" model has created.

[Greg_Bohn]

I think there are multiple aspects to consider. Price and the "freedom" to  continue to use the software at the end being two of the major ones.

   Considering just the price part, it's also important to differentiate  the "Cost of Entry" verses the cost of continuing ownership.

   Since there are many different circumstances (personal as well as how  many applications are wanted) and Adobe charges a different amount in  different areas, not everyone will be affected in the same way.

  In my case, I have Photoshop CS6. After 36 months under the old plan, even if I decided to upgrade every 18 months (a choice that I no longer enjoy) my total continuing cost would have been $400-500 ish.

  Under the cloud, this is currently $720.00. Even counting the one-time first year reduction, that's still $600.00 which is again more.

  For me it's a price increase. The most galling aspect to me is that under the new model,  if I stop paying I can't continue to use the (CC) version I have.

  You might be very happy (and that's fine), but not everyone is so pleased.

[Randall B Miller]

What does everyone want to pay for this software, 29.95 a year? $40 per

lifetime? I can get apps on my iphone that let me draw at retina

resolution for 1-3 dollars! Why would adobe charge 10 times that? I can't

believe we're discussing this--I actually think adobe wants to make money!

[Jeff_Know1]

I don't want to be forced to pay anything every year. I am not going to rent my software that I rely on for my work. I want a license that I can use for as long as I want if I ever decide not to upgrade anymore.

Do your iPhone apps require a monthly fee? And no one is arguing that Adobe doesn't or shouldn't want to make money... it's this heavy handed way they are trying to accomplish it that we do not agree with.

[Randall B Miller]

A dollar a year is too much? Is there no lower limit? Adobe software

should exist for its stockholders making 0? Wow

[Jeff_Know1]

Yes, on principal a dollar a year is too much if there is no exit strategy. You'd be completely at the mercy of Adobe for the rest of your working life.

You need to realize that it's not the software that has value to me. It's all the files that I create with that software that has value to me. However, without the software all those files are suddenly worthless. So yes, a dollar a year is too much.

Renting critical software where you have no reliable exit strategy is not acceptable to me at any price. I need to be able to open up clients files now and far in to the future without Adobe's permission. As it stands, Adobe's renting only model does not provide that security so I cannot go along with it.

Many many apps require monthly in app purchases to use them, horrors

I can't think of ANY apps that require a monthly in app purchase.... so please by all means, enlighten us with some examples.

[Randall B Miller]

If a 1$ a year is too much, then I've easily proven my silly point!

Lynda.com, gotomypc.com, Next Issue, *All magazines subscriptions, NY Post,

NY Times, etc.*, all require monthly purchases to stay activated (those are

just the ones I do), office 365, on and on

[Jeff_Know1]

I have a yearly subscription to Lynda.com, they create excellent tutorials (Deke McClelland basically thought me how to use Photoshop). But you can't compare Adobe software to video tutorials. You can easily leave Lynda.com after your subscription ends.

There are no files that you still need to be able to open once you leave Lynda.com that require a continuous monthly fee to Lynda.com. So a subscription tutorial website is absolutely fine.

And you also don't create files with a magazine subscription do you? These items you mentioned are consumables. Adobe programs just do not fit this category.

You do have a point with Office 365; they do have a subscription for that. But Microsoft also provides us with a perpetual license to the Office Suite if we so desire.

[Randall B Miller]

Ok, You asked about monthly app purchases!

But you're right, there is no one like Adobe, that does what Adobe does.

[Randall B Miller]

Yes I'm blindly pocketing my money from paying Adobe 0.3% of my income

derived from creating with their software. That is not a bad thing. Maybe?

[Randall B Miller]

Has anyone here complaining about Adobe's pricing suggested a dollar amount

that could work for all concerned? I'm curious how low that is.

[Randall B Miller]

Many many apps require monthly in app purchases to use them, horrors

[Danny_Michael]

You're just being childish now with your comments. You just lost any credibility you might of thought you had.