Why We're Not Signing Up To Adobe Creative Cloud.

[chrisgavin2]

I've spent quite a lot of time looking at the implications of the new 'Creative Cloud' deal for our company. I have decided that for us, it's a very BAD deal indeed...

1: As a UK company the list price for Creative Cloud %152 the US price. CC for teams here works out at $102/user/month. The exact same software and online solution for half as much again as US users are being asked for. We can't see any justification for this market segmentation. Adobe software has always cost a lot more to worldwide users outside the US marketplace, but with a 'cloud-based' product delivered entirely online (under the new CC regime) how on Earth, can these price differences continue to be justified?

2: Creative Cloud for teams is being charged at a considerably higher rate than for individuals. Buying numerous seats and being a loyal customer will actually cost a lot more than the per-seat price for individual users. The 'Teams' offer does include increased cloud storage, but we just don't need this, and don't expect to be charged more per seat for the priviledge of being a multi-user customer.

3: Subscription at the advertised rates is not only too  expensive, it just doesn't suit us at all. As many have said before, we upgrade our software when we can afford it. Our business is sporadic, so we prefer to be in control of our spending. The subsciption model represents a constant drain on our resources. If Adobe want to offer a subscription model, then that's fine for those that might want it, but the option to buy software shouldn't be withdrawn from the customers who prefer to purchase their software outright.

4: Creative Cloud includes a lot of things we don't need. We don't actually need to be paying Adobe for cloud storage of our projects. We didn't ask for 100GB of cloud storage per team user, and we certainly shouldn't be paying for it out of our software spend.

5: Monopolistic Behaviour. With customers on a monthly subscription, Adobe can and  will introduce features and increase prices at a pace to suit themselves. As customers, we lose control of how much software we buy and how often. The subscription model of tied-in customers is just bad for us and cetainly bad for innovation and competition in the marketplace.

I encourage users to make their opinions known to Adobe about the new scheme and I sincerely hope that Adobe will give serious consideration to the legitimate concerns of their user-base.

I look forward to the retraction of the 'cloud only' decision soon.

Chris.

[Randall B Miller]

I didn't say I have any credibility, I'm just wondering how low Adobe should go in pricing?

[Butch_M]

rmdtulsa wrote:

I didn't say I have any credibility, I'm just wondering how low Adobe should go in pricing?

I, for one, have no issue with Adobe making a profit ... any business, great or small, must strive to earn a reasonable income for their efforts ... For me it isn't only the price of CC it is that whether I spend a dollar or a million dollars with Adobe over the next few decades ... at the end of the day, once I cease payments to them, I will have no use of any of the software I underwrote the creation of. If you can't wrap your head around that fact, you are blindly boarding the CC merry-go-round to oblivion ...

[Greg_Bohn]

rmdtulsa wrote:

What does everyone want to pay for this software, 29.95 a year? $40 per

lifetime?  I can get apps on my iphone that let me draw at retina

resolution for 1-3 dollars! Why would adobe charge 10 times that? I can't

believe we're discussing this--I actually think adobe wants to make money!

Sigh... Since your acting a bit childish now (or is it trollish?) I hesitate to even bother responding...

  If you're happy paying whatever Adobe asks, under whatever conditions they dictate,  then fine. You're just the type of person they're looking for.   

  But most people do look at the 'long game" now and again, at what they used to pay, what they will need to pay in the future, what they might do when they want or need to leave the game, etc.

  Presumably, nobody thinks Adobe should give it's software away, or shouldn't make money.  But if you plan to be dealing with Adobe for a long time, it's probably in your best interests to at least see the potential consequences of the recent changes on the 'future you'...

[Randall B Miller]

I can't shake that I love $50 a month, that this is the best pricing ever.

Look up the pricing of Illustrator and Photoshop since their inception

($895 each for buggy 1.0s), and these are relatively free prices.

(multiplied by a dozen other included programs).

[Danny_Michael]

It's not about the 50/month. It's about the lack of a perpectual license and being at the mercy of Adobe in the future. I think at this point you're just a troll. Either that or you just don't get it and never will. Enjoy your leasing option. Adobe was counting on people like you and you didn't disappoint them.

[Randall B Miller]

I guess I don't in believe in "perpectual"--Mac and PC systems change so

much over 3-6 years, they don't run software you own. And you can't get

support (for Cocoa macs, Windows 3.1, many). It's hard to run mid-90s stuff

or be able to get it printed by someone as a file.

Maybe my real problem is on the "perpectual" thing. If I don't buy a new

machine every 6 years I'm out of the loop anyways.

[Danny_Michael]

rmdtulsa wrote:

I guess I don't in believe in "perpectual"

Yes ma'am, I made a typo.

[Randall B Miller]

however it's spelled, I can't imagine any software I buy today working on

2020 computers. I don't believe in software that runs forever. I was just

saying, maybe that's why I don't understand using software forever with one

purchase.

[Randall B Miller]

(I don't know how to spell perpectual either!)

[Danny_Michael]

I can't wait for another year or two to see these same names in here complaining how they have to keep paying monthly fee's for software that never gets any substantial upgrades. Oh, and let's not forget the price increases, they'll be here just as soon as enough of you are hooked. Yeah, looking forward to the future. Some of us are forward thinkers, some only see today.

[Randall B Miller]

That's a very fair reply. I have no idea on the future. It will likely get worse before it gets better. I've been happy since 1988, I'd be surprised if the party stops, but it sure can happen easily!

[Danny_Michael]

It will get worse, you can count on it. You have turned over the only voice you have by handing your wallet to Adobe or lose access to your work if you want your wallet back. Your need for "instant gratification" has cost you more than you realize now, but in a few years it will all be much more clear to you.

[Randall B Miller]

I wouldn't suggest trying to find real work for employers while proclaiming expertise with obscure non-industry-standard products.

With clients, it doesn't matter, just so you can produce...but during job interviews, I can't imagine saying "I have 15 years experience in Corel!"

And then you get the fun of receiving current Adobe data files from professionals that you can't open. I don't know how you would get around that.

If you're producing art by yourself, for yourself, it doesn't matter. But how can you make a living interacting with professionals not using/learning what everyone else is?

When a job goes bad on the press, the pre-press people can help you out, since they run Adobe stuff all the time. But how do you get out of press trouble like that when it's (relatively obscure) software?

Life is easier using the most popular tools. But that also means you don't get to choose what those tools are.

[Dragonspear]

1)  I agree with you that it does sound nice to be afluent in industry standard products. Quite frankly, however, most jobs I get are not because of the tools I use, but the results I provide. I'm speaking for myself (and obviously this is determined by what kind of work and where you are doing it) but most people will look at examples of your work to decide if you're a fit. It's not just in the interviews, it's in your portfolio of work examples.

2) Corel IS an industry standard program last I checked. I can't even count how many graphic designers I go to take my Illustrator or photoshop files into Corel. Corel supports EPS formats, and Photoshop can export as EPS. While Illustrator is more widely used in my opinion, I wouldn't say it is the only standard.

3) My solution has been to keep the CS6 suite ^__^ I plan on using that for a long long time. Most businesses require you to save files in older version formats anyway because they don't upgrade every year either!

You are right that life is easier using the most popular tools. Here's to hoping that those tools can someday actually be "owned" again.

[Randall B Miller]

Good point on portfolio mattering a lot, it sure does, regardless how

produced.

Maybe Corel is better or different than I've been led to believe. I just

know no printer/service wants to receive or work with Corel files

(especially eps). But maybe that's changed lately.

Good luck in your search!

[Dragonspear]

...or it could be because I'm here in Alaska...and we're behind the times. EVERYTHING takes longer to get to Alaska...except winter....winter doesn't take long. 😜

[Greg_Bohn]

rmdtulsa wrote:

however it's spelled, I can't imagine any software I buy today working on

2020 computers. I don't believe in software that runs forever. I was just

saying, maybe that's why I don't understand using software forever with one

purchase.

That's less than 7 years from now. I have games (I can still play today) that are older than that.

Windows XP is about 12 years old and still runs about 39 % of the worlds P.C.s today (with updates of course).

Maybe not forever, but still a long time...

[Randall B Miller]

maybe its just Mac then (all I've used)

[Danny_Michael]

We have a Tiger OS, CS3 Design machine at work. It has Acrobat 7 on it. It does all we need it to do. Adobe has removed options like that in the future. That machine would have cost us unnecessary amounts of money to keep running if we had to lease. Not everyone needs or wants the latest versions. For example, I can't see one single thing in the CC versions that would warrant me to upgrade. Nothing, nada, zip. It will only get worse now that Adobe has no pressure to add anything to force sales. As a matter of fact, I just downgraded my Photoshop CS6 to 13.0.4, since they introduced an enormous text bug in 13.0.5. Having the latest is not always the greatest.

[Danny_Michael]

And since we're now just beating a dead horse (Addddoooobe), I'll thank you for the dialog and move on. Have a good weekend.

[Randall B Miller]

I'm done too! Goodnight everyone!!! It was invigorating to run into strong

opinions on a near and dear subject--Thank you!!

[Randall B Miller]

I have severe problems with CS3--advertisers ads created with newer

versions would drop entire graphics because of transparency options added

in later. I was blamed. Newer versions I can be worry free.

We likely work in different conditions and expectations

[Greg_Bohn]

rmdtulsa wrote:

I can't shake that I love $50 a month, that this is the best pricing ever.

Look up the pricing of Illustrator and Photoshop since their inception

($895 each for buggy 1.0s), and these are relatively free prices.

(multiplied by a dozen other included programs).

"Buy in price" isn't the same as the "Ongoing/upgrade price" (at least under the perpetual model anyway).

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[W_J_T]

RM Brand wrote:

I don't know what calculators you're using, but the numbers are pretty solid.

Amusing. Well, similarly I am not sure what thread or post you're reading or even if you're remembering your own previous statements. You initially wrote the following:

RM Brand wrote:

- people like myself who would otherwise never afford $700 outright

- I signed up for their subscription back when it was over $150/mo

So I then wrote:

W_J_T wrote:

? Seems rather odd comparatively speaking concerning costs.

Now you have provided further information in your witty reponse about calculators above:

RM Brand wrote:

Then Adobe started offering subscriptions at $150/mo. It was a big chunk of money per month and I thought I would only afford two at most, but I was fortunate because the price went drastically down two months later.

But the fact is you started paying $150 a month not knowing 2 months later the price would go down. So yeah that's where my calculator and comment came from. You stated you couldn't afford $700 but then said you signed up for $150 a month, my calculator tells me you would have went beyond the cost you said you could not afford in less than half a year, and again you agreed to and were ok with this price not knowing and accepting it would be that amount, thus my statement of "Seems rather odd comparatively speaking concerning costs". Understand my calculator now?

The bottom line is the math does not add up for everyone regardless of economic demographics. There are posts and articles from large businesses, corporations, educations institutions, etc., people who have the money but don't find the justification or agree with the new subscription model of Creative Cloud.

RM Brand wrote:

That means more talented people sharing their work, better opportunities to partner with people internationally, and collaborate on projects to help each creative person grow. What is the alternative?

RM Brand wrote:

I use everything in the creative suite. I didn't learn all of it on the job, only a fraction of it on the job. The rest I learned AFTER I got the subscription. And yes, it is a lot more affordable for me, because I use all the software in the Master Suite (including After Effects, Premiere, Audition, Speedgrade, Bridge, Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, Lightroom, Media Encoder...). I design brochures, I create book covers, I composite videos, I edit videos, I produce large documents with complex layouts, I do my own color correction/grading, I design info graphics, on and on and on...

Talented people have known how to share work, collaborate and make award winning outcomes long before the advent or need of the cloud concept or this new marketing term of the serviced based app model under a subscription. Remember these are merely tools. When you look at a photo, illustration, brochure, catalog, website code, motion graphics, video footage, etc., do you know what version of software of even what software was used? Most times no, you or anyone else does not have a clue and the client is generally paying for the final result not that you used a certain software or version. Because of this true creative people even with older Adobe tools (even pre-CS, CS2, CS3, CS4, CS5, CS6) can still use said tools to create compelling and award winning results without needing some half baked and poorly implemented features used for marketing to sell a new version. Some people feel and think they need the latest software or features, then you look at their work/portfolio and see it could have been done 5-10 years ago in older software. It's about talent not just tools. A lot of people have a hammer and a chisel laying around but that does not make them Michelangelo. 😉 So yes there are alternatives for talented people.

[Andy_Bay]

I browsed trough this thread and decided that instead of beating a dead horse I will just quote two very well laid out comments that summarize perfectly my feelings towards the cloud:

From Butch_M:

I have passed up on many items, including offerings from Adobe, because they just didn't bring anything additional to the cause worthy of my investment. What has happened now is Adobe demands to be rewarded for every effort they make, by every customer they have ... even if those efforts add little to the cause. Too bad we all couldn't run our businesses in that manner ... but we don't have a monopoly, we have to exist in the real world.

I can easily afford $600 per year for CC ... that in of itself does not make it a wise investment. The use of the software must enhance your bottom line to a much greater degree than it's cost in order to be considered worthy of purchase. If the new and improved feature sets offered over the course of a year using the CC license model do not add to your earnings by a much greater level than the amount paid ... it is not a smart investment.

And from Jeff_Know1:

Adobe is now positioned to milk their customers every month without having to innovate. What are you going to do if they don't improve their products the way you predict? If you stop paying you can't open up your files anymore. You won't be able to do any work for your clients. In other words, you wouldn't be able to afford to leave even if you wanted to. With a perpetual license we actually get to decide that for ourselves.