Crafting a Custom News Portal Page

[ALsp]

This little showcase page was built for our customers to demonstrate the power of our extensions. It utilizes 2 automated slider widgets in a structure created with our Harmony Flexbox page layout tool:

Showcase

The entire page took less than a minute to create - not including content authoring.

Of course, an advanced coder should be able to cobble something similar together with Bootstrap and jQuery, but it would likely take a significant amount of time.

So, reminder....

Extensions are what made Dreamweaver. And while there are not too many quality developers left, there is PVII. We exist for small web design shops whose time must be judiciously allocated. We provide tools that work as timesavers for coders and lifesavers for non-coders.

Enjoy, if only for the inspiration.

[osgood_]

williamj31276244  wrote

and they (WebAssist) are still putting all the backend code on the front end ...  in 2018

Yes, DMX uses propriatory coding which if you think about it is not good for your clients but then again I guess those who use such products haven't really given that much thought. You produce a 5k site for your client whose very happy with it but if you disappear soon after for what ever reason they will be left with a problem trying to find anyone else to understand the code being used.

It's an issue if you dont use recognised 'popular' workflows, not for the developer, the 'fraudsters' will do anything if it means a pay day but for the client..........

[pziecina]

The problem with all extensions, is that for anyone new to Dw purchasing what is required for casual web development, is price.

Purchasing one or two extensions may be cost effective, but purchasing even 50% of those required for modern dynamic sites puts the price of developing with Dw at over $1000, a price that is no longer cost effective compared to Wappler, and certainly not cost effective for anyone who can code.

[ALsp]

Tools are always a cost of doing business. The contractor who build my house could have saved money by driving home nails with a $10 hammer instead of a power driver; could have used hand drills, could have built the roof trusses onsite. But he runs a professional company and his efficiency is balanced against the cost of tools, which is in turn balanced by the size of his business. Your position is tired, Paula. And it's really narrow. And it really assumes the complete opposite from what I think you want, which is a Dreamweaver written for professional developers. Well, professional developers should be able to purchase tools. If not, then they probably do not have a successful business.

Again, my discussion was hijacked, but if you consider PVII extensions... for instance, a page layout builder and a menu builder, the you are talking approx. $200. If you are a Cloud subscriber and anticipate being one for, let's say, 5 years, then let's do the math:

Cloud subscription:

$52.99 x 60 months = $3179.40

Harmony Page Builder + Maxi Menus = $220.00 = $3.66 per month.

Creative Cloud:

$52.99 per month

PVII:

$3.66 per month.

Go beyond 5 years and guess what happens?

[pziecina]

ALsp  wrote

Your position is tired, Paula. And it's really narrow. And it really assumes the complete opposite from what I think you want, which is a Dreamweaver written for professional developers.

My position might be tired, but what I am pointing out is that the cost of developing with Dw for anyone just starting out can be expensive, especially when it comes to dynamic sites. Yes dmxzone does have a few free extensions, but will those be enough?

Dw should be for the professional developer, (would require a massive change in its current development direction) with extensions providing an alternative for those who require them.

Currently though, extensions are the only reliable way for Dw users who are not coders to create sites, without spending weeks, (if not months) just learning the more advanced html and css, and lets not even talk about javascript or server/database side code, which Dw provides absolutely nothing for.

Extensions are in my view an enhancement for those who require them, they should never replace a good and complete development program, and a resonable understanding of the code that extensions produce, (if someone cannot modify the extension produced code themselves if required, they should not be using them).

[ALsp]

Extensions are in my view an enhancement for those who require them, they should never replace a good and complete development program, and a reasonable understanding of the code that extensions produce, (if someone cannot modify the extension produced code themselves if required, they should not be using them).

And that's just one of the things that make our extensions so valuable. An accomplished coder can easily grasp the structure and the UI allows for easy application of user-defined classes. No other extension developer provides that level of flexibility.

[BenPleysier]

Reading through the various posts (a lot later that most of you guys and gals due to my time-zone) I get the impression that, for some individuals, the power of extensions has gone completely past them. No, the student with an assignment to produce one website, will not purchase an extension. No, the employee of a large corporation will not purchase an extension. It is the hard working small web solutions company that will purchase extensions and here is why.

As a loner, like some of the other posters seem to be, I need to juggle my time between customer relations and production. They go hand in hand, no production - no clients, no clients - no production. Spend time on clients, less time for production. One solution would be to hire more persons. But as one wise competitor once said: 'I wish you lots of employees', meaning that my effectiveness in the business would be diminished and he would get the upper hand.

Another solution is to hire contractors that can be called in to code certain parts of a complex site. They could code certain parts and I could use that code in my projects. Problem is where to find these people that just happen to be waiting for my beckon call ready to jump in at any time.

Dreamweaver extensions! Ready, willing and able and cost effective.

[osgood_]

Customer relations should also be about providing solutions which are portable and well documented within the industry in my opinion, unless you are producing something which is bespoke for the customers specific needs and is outside the scope of the majority of developers skills, but l dont exactly have the necessity to have to make a living purely based on cost or lack of skill or whatever it is you are suggesting to justify the use of such products that's of course if you classify yourself to be professional. If you dont you're excused, its your customers fault for not using a professional.

[BenPleysier]

Sorry, I fail to comprehend your obsession to classify web developers as professionals or otherwise. Maybe it is wise to point you to the definition of 'professional'

To insinuate that I am not a professional shows the personality of a small minded person willing to drag others down to make themselves seem bigger than they are in reality.

[pziecina]

You could also use the legal definition of professional -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional

Namely -

The term also describes the standards of education and training that prepare members of the profession with the particular knowledge and skills necessary to perform their specific role within that profession. In addition, most professionals are subject to strict codes of conduct, enshrining rigorous ethicaland moral obligations.^[1] Professional standards of practice and ethics for a particular field are typically agreed upon and maintained through widely recognized

[pziecina]

Now I've posted that definition, I think we should be very carefull in definitions when it comes to web development, as each one of us will have a different view, and maybe we have/do know as much as each other, we have all forgotten or not kept up with some part of the knowledge.

So the question would be -

"If you know web development, what level of knowledge would qualify someone as a professional, and what amount of knowledge should you use"?

[BenPleysier]

Poor ALsp​, this post should be devoted to his Showcase​. We are now wandering off , not even on a tangent.

OK. should web development be classified as a 'profession' after reading the legal definition? Should it be classified as a trade or craft?

I know that in a previous life, backed by a degree, I was classified as a Professional Engineer and was submitted to codes of conduct and perpetual training sessions. Does adherence to a continually changing W3C standard mirror this?

Anyhow, I have an income creating web sites and I do not care about a label. My clients are happy and that is what matters to me. If it makes people happy, just call me Ben the Web Developer.

With apologies to Al Sparber and thanks again.

[pziecina]

BenPleysier  wrote

..., I have an income creating web sites and I do not care about a label. My clients are happy and that is what matters to me. If it makes people happy, just call me Ben the Web Developer.

I always clasify myself as the 'senior project manager' at work. It does not matter what anyone else who I work with thinks should be done, if their grade is not higher than mine, my decission is the one that counts.

I think that is what AL will be fighting against when it comes to extensions, it does not matter what the Dw team or any other team manager thinks, if someone above them says "No" then it is not going to happen. It is simply how corporate life works.

[B i r n o u]

depending on where you look for the definition, it can be very contextual.... here in france we have a site that gives definitions in a rather exhaustive way...

So for the word PROFESSIONAL we find this.....

PROFESSIONNEL : Définition de PROFESSIONNEL

[osgood_]

Its no surprise to see you post a response defending your obvious lack of understanding.

Think of it this way, you are a  pub chef that resorts to using a cheap off the shelf  cake mix solution to save time and money whereas another chef has a passion for the ingredients they use and a deeper desire and understanding of his craft, one is more professional than the other.

I dont need to drag others down who are already in the gutter.  lm pointing out defaults in certain worflows to anyone considering web development as a long term career so they can better consider their choices.

I would hope if l ever went on a professional web design development course they would teach me more than just deploying extensions and using a product like Wappler as a serious option, although l have little faith in anything anymore if it means cutting corners and saving money to make money.

[B i r n o u]

osgood_  a écrit

I dont need to drag others down who are already in the gutter. 

it may be a cultural or interpretation problem during translation, but seen from here, I mean seen from a French culture, these kinds of comments are very condescending and denigrating

[osgood_]

And...small minded? Youre very selective. Sometimes its hard to accept the truth for some people.

[B i r n o u]

what truth are you talking about?.... by calling people little things you think you grow up... maybe the easiest thing to do is ignore them... and that's what I should do...

[ALsp]

Everyone has their points. But since you mentioned pastry...

Before Gerry and I launched Project Seven, I owned a specialty food distribution company. One of our main lines was called Patisfrance, or Paris Gourmet as it was known in the States. One of the highest volume categories we sold was flavor compounds. We sold them to the finest pastry chefs east of the Mississippi. Now, I'm sure a trained pastry chef could cull, peel, and slice a hundred mangoes, cook them down for hours, and wind up with a house made flavor compound. But Patisfrance did it for them, at a price that could be reconciled against the savings in time. There are always going to be Betty Crocker cake mixes type of extensions, but then there are also ones that mix up great code to provide a real timesaver, with no compromises in quality. This is what a high-quality tool is, and always has been.

So, the problem you have should be more related to the quality of the toolmaker, not the concept of using tools.

If you have the time and the passion to do it all yourself, that's fine. But please don't begrudge or belittle those who embrace quality tools.

[osgood_]

I don't deny that in certain circumstances a mass product used as an ingredient  to enhance a bespoke dish is used but iits generally a small part of the overall process. I dont think you could call Bootstrap or the propriatory code of Wappler a small part. How many extensions used to create a website would be consideted a small part.

Ive always said extensions and tools like Wappler are aimed at a specific market. Personally l dont believe that is the professional market others can disagree.

[ALsp]

Actually, ingredients are ingredients, Os. Chefs don't ordinarily raise their own beef, or churn their own butter. A 4-star meal is the sum of its parts (ingredients) orchestrated by a chef... a professional. When I eat a fine meal, I savor the result, rather than contemplating where the ingredients came from.

As for how many extensions are enough? That's up to the tool-wielder. Our Harmony tool, for instance, can allow a professional to comp a site in minutes - a process not possible with Dreamweaver alone. The code is easy to understand and customize, or the comped page can go into the fast file, and once the project is contracted for, the professional developer can recode it manually, if that's what he or she really wants to do.

I guess the bottom line is that you are expressing an opinion. I just respectfully maintain that you are being a little forward with it . It's kind of like me saying that only an idiot would code by hand. But I know that's not true, because in order to produce extensions, we code... by hand. And that is different in a fundamental way from making an extension that works off of other people's code. We never, ever could do that and expect to earn money from it, because it would be tantamount to an artist selling someone else's art - slightly altered.

[osgood_]

Think of code as the raw ingredients. Good chefs know all about those ingredients to help get the best out of those ingredients and to further enhance those ingredients using other available ingredients and what can be further achieved using those  ingredients. If you just rely on something which comes in a package that in general is what you use because you  lack the skills to explore what other ingredients could be used and instead become dependent on what a package offers.

I dont personally think lm being forward, just bringing a balanced, alternative view for anyone that shares my passion for web development, done the right way. Im mortified that the Wappler team are supposedly engaging in talks with educational establishments and the IT numpties within those establishments that are considering the possibility of teaching students how to produce websites based on an 'unrecognised' workflow.

Surely we should be teaching the new breed of talent industry recognised and accepted ways of web development. Im worried for the future if kids are being duped at such an early age by those who are irresponsible

[W_J_T]

osgood_  wrote

I don't need to drag others down who are already in the gutter.

I'm thinking of writing a Dreamweaver extension that simply aggregates osgood_'s jaded/spiteful comments from throughout the forum and presents them to DW users - uplifting and positively inspiring peoples day.

[osgood_]

You need to get out a little more if you think that was spiteful. I'm not here to make friends or nod my head in agreement. Im like Marmite, love me or hate me for outting the truth in a world full of bullcrap and lies, I couldnt give a dam.

[ALsp]

Marmite, huh? Weren't you talking about fine chefs before .

You know, most of the arguments you give against using extensions are, in a very real way, endorsements for our page building tools. You do realize that using Harmony to comp a page or do a final design will result in code that any hand-coding CSS expert will clearly understand and be able to work with -- with or without our interface.

I'm not asking you to change your mindset, but perhaps you could cut me a little slack. We're not that far apart in the overall scheme of things.

[osgood_]

lve never mentioned your extensions in this thread, on this ocassion lm refering to another developers products, detailing why l personally think for the professional they might not be the greatest of choices, so be thankful, l am cutting you some slack

As lve stated on many ocassions in the past l have no issue with amatuers using such products. You cannot expect a 75 year old to spend 5 years learning and fully understanding code or someone that only does web development at the weekend, in which case theses products are the perfect choice, but maybe not so for the client.