Crafting a Custom News Portal Page

[ALsp]

This little showcase page was built for our customers to demonstrate the power of our extensions. It utilizes 2 automated slider widgets in a structure created with our Harmony Flexbox page layout tool:

Showcase

The entire page took less than a minute to create - not including content authoring.

Of course, an advanced coder should be able to cobble something similar together with Bootstrap and jQuery, but it would likely take a significant amount of time.

So, reminder....

Extensions are what made Dreamweaver. And while there are not too many quality developers left, there is PVII. We exist for small web design shops whose time must be judiciously allocated. We provide tools that work as timesavers for coders and lifesavers for non-coders.

Enjoy, if only for the inspiration.

[osgood_]

williamj31276244  wrote

It is actually really easy to customize backend like this, and that's why it's better to have backend separated from front end (talking about dmx) and not having all the backend PHP code put on each front end page.

The server connect extension offers scalability and modularity - so you can reuse and customize the components you define

You can have one single backend API (server action) responsible for many front end pages/apps ( different cities, different cars, different options) and it is easy to have custom setup for each front end option (workshop/city etc).

That's why I said I couldn't be happier ditching WebAssist extensions for dmx.

We are not asking that though or I am not. If your client was to ditch you would they be able to go to the web-develper down the road and would that web developer be able to seamlessly understand the code those extentions create (being as though its not industry recongised code such as vue, react or angular) and extend the website without any complications or have you not even given that a thought?

I have no doubt these products/extensions do the job and are extendable if you have the product are familar with the niche the code but tat not going to aply to the majority of web-developers using indusry standard work practices..........maybe.......just a thought.

[williamj31276244]

I care about my clients' requirements. I deliver projects (usually websites and intranet systems) following my client requirements.

I do not possess the powers to tell IF somebody will be hired after 10 years to update any of the sites I am working on and what skills will they have then. This has never been an issue and this has never been discussed with my clients nor I know any person who tells their clients "if you ditch me the next developer will be able to change everything" as this is just not something that sound seriously

Also - for the past 21 years I have never been hired to take someone's job and do this or that. Usually people want a new system, with whole new options.

I'm not taking seriously the statement that the code is not good because someone in 5-7-15 years won't be familiar with what i produced in 2015. God, what if PHP 11 has nothing to do with 7.2???

[osgood_]

williamj31276244  wrote

I care about my clients' requirements. I deliver projects (usually websites and intranet systems) following my client requirements.

I do not possess the powers to tell IF somebody will be hired after 10 years to update any of the sites I am working on and what skills will they have then.

I see your point but you can look at it both ways - using industry recognised workflow practices lessens the chance that your client wont be left holding 'the baby' should they wish to use another developer for whatever reason.

Anyway thanks for you input.

[osgood_]

williamj31276244  wrote

Also - for the past 21 years I have never been hired to take someone's job and do this or that. Usually people want a new system, with whole new options.

Ok well everyones situation is different, I actually do get asked to take on work which has been abandoned by other developers who have gone out of business or where client relationships have turned bad and I'm reluctant even to take on someone elses job when they use industry standard practices because we all write code in extremely different ways to achieve the same result but I can usually navigate my way around to extend the website and make changes, without having to rip the guts of it out and deploy expensive major changes to the code, so Id probably faint if someone came to me whose website uses niche coding as I would most likey see that as yet another obstacle in the way.

[ALsp]

We are not asking that though or I am not. If your client was to ditch you would they be able to go to the web-develper down the road and would that web developer be able to seamlessly understand the code those extentions create (being as though its not industry recongised code such as vue, react or angular) and extend the website without any complications or have you not even given that a thought?

Before you get wound up, Os, I am writing this to clarify how MY extensions fit into the various tangents this thread has devolved into. And I'm doing it because I started the thread. That said, I will proceed:

If you all are talking about server-side extensions, backend code, then I would say there is a problem when development of a site is transferred. However, you all need to understand that the type of person who would use a Web Assist or DMX Zone server-side solution is not involved in a team-development setting for a large organization. They are typically managing a personal site or a small business site and doing the development themselves. Microsoft and Adobe are not using Web Assist extensions. They are using a combination of open source libraries and in-house developed scripting. So, that particular issue should now be closed.

As for our extensions, which are client-side front-end tools, the above quoted position you stated is totally and wholly irrelevant. Our code is comprised of easy to understand industry-standard CSS. Our markup is therefore easily edited by any developer who deserves the label of developer. Our most popular tool, which automates the process of responsive page layout relies on a very small script whose only purpose is to provide usability workarounds for browsers that do not support Flexbox.

Even the widgets used as the subject of the original post can be completely transformed by using standard CSS. The script orchestrates and provides behaviors… arguably superior to what jQuery or Vue can do out of the box.. Be that as it may, I know that real developers frequently use open source plugins, but they sure as hell aren't going to change the script to reinvent the default behaviors. Instead, and I guarantee this.... they will simply replace the plugin, markup, css, and scripts, with another plugin that does what they want.

So... please, readers... make sure you understand the premises being made in this thread, the sources, and the relevant backstories, because what you read is not always what it is.

[B i r n o u]

you're completly right and have a sharp vision of the market and business around it

[osgood_]

ALsp  wrote

As for our extensions, which are client-side front-end tools, the above quoted position you stated is totally and wholly irrelevant. Our code is comprised of easy to understand industry-standard CSS. Our markup is therefore easily edited by any developer who deserves the label of developer. Our most popular tool, which automates the process of responsive page layout relies on a very small script whose only purpose is to provide usability workarounds for browsers that do not support Flexbox.

Al I absolutely know your extensions are all written with portabilty in mind that's why I'm not including your products in my investigations. Yours are fully acceptable using industry standard code workflows/practices, so yes do please clarify the situation

And as Ive stated in the past in certain circumstances I can fully understand why someone would and should use extensions whether they be yours or someone elses. I dont expect someone without a long term objective in web-development to spent time learning code just to maintaion their personal websites or organisations websites or maybe even a small government department where an office worker gets charged with keeping the website up to date but who also file papers, takes dictation etc. In those situations you have to be sensible and use what's available.

[pziecina]

ALsp  wrote

Be that as it may, I know that real developers frequently use open source plugins, but they sure as hell aren't going to change the script to reinvent the default behaviors. Instead, and I guarantee this.... they will simply replace the plugin, markup, css, and scripts, with another plugin that does what they want.

Maybe, maybe not.

We replaced all plug-ins in the app. as soon as it became viable to replace them with straight forward html and css, plus small scripts if required. I doubt it would have been possible with many of the common behaviours or effects that many used 8 or so years ago, (and are still using) but we found that there is very little that cannot be done better and with much less code now.

Again though I am not saying such an approach is open to everyone, or even viable to everyone.

[osgood_]

pziecina wrote

I have no idea where much of what is being 'said' now has come from.

Correct me if I an wrong Os, but what I think you are asking is similar to the question I asked on Saturday, in that I wish to know, 'how easy is it to extend the code that back-end extensions produce'?

Well kind of, more like how 'transportable' is the code created by products that deploy proprietary code to build the front-end and maybe the back-end in the case where another web-developer has the need to take the website over. Would they be able to understand the code to extend it, decipher the mess it sometimes makes, or would they have to re-fit large amounts of the existing code into something more industry recognised at additional cost to the client. Obviously using 'popular' workflows has the advantage for the client to source a suitable web-developer/agency as there are going to be more web-developers/agencies using industry recognised coding/workflows.

Obviously in some cases complex 'bespoke' applications need to be built and we must expect the code for those to be somewhat complex and out of the reach of your average web-developer, like myself, but for the majority of websites which just use CRUD operations and a few simple db queries is it acceptable professional practice to deploy workflows that are not industry recognised and could cause the client some major headaches that they were never informed about at the outset of the project.

Is this even an isuue. That's it in a nutshell. I was just trying to gauge opinions by unbiased representitives but everyone is going to be biased to some extent depending on what workflow they use.

Probably  need to wait and see if this all ripples down to where these products get picked up and tested by more advanced web-developers used to using recognised workflows and see what their reaction is. Im not qualified enough to pick up on all the advantages or disadvantages, if there are any.

[pziecina]

My problem with discussions on this site, is that work wise I develop as part of a large team, but here I think most people are developing as lone developers of very small teams, (3-5 people, with maybe 1 or 2 doing the coding).

What many call traditional workflows or even time/cost effectiveness also probably differs to what I think of. I'm not certain if I will ever really understand 'traditional workflows' or 'time/cost' problems for lone developers or teams, as my experiance does not cover yours or others experiance in such things.

The thing that would worry me about extensions or proprietary code, is what would I do if I am on holiday with only my iPad, (has Coda and textmatic) and something went wrong with the site. This is an experiance I have had a few times, but as I say! 'I am trying to think like a typical forum user', so I don't know if that is a valid worry.

[B i r n o u]

I think that the discussion is lost between two services that are certainly complementary, sometimes compacted in a single form by some developers but often distinguished as two complementary, but distinct services.

on the one hand the development of a site... and on the other hand the maintainability of this site and its evolution.

here in france a large number of web agencies develop the site, then goodbye and thanks service completed.........

on my side, as you Paula, I try as best I can to follow the project and keep it afloat and make it evolve... but it is not a generality that is expected by the customer, nor the team.

I don't judge or qualify any position on this... it's just a statement... and as William rightly points out, when discussing a project with customers, the question is always what the site will be like in the next 1 or 2 years but not what its maintainability will be in the next 10 years and whether a particular skill or compatibility of tools or technology used will be necessary.

[B i r n o u]

to complete this observation and once again without judging or criticizing... it is impressive the number of projects developed under Joomla that I had to take over for customers... let's say start from scratch... whereas at the time when these projects were put online Joomla was on the rise and was one of the most popular CMS tools...

and well before that, that's not to mention how many SPIP projects were replaced at the time by Joomla

[B i r n o u]

and if now we're not talking about online tools or frameworks anymore... let's talk about pure manual code only... how many handwritten projects from A to Z in PHP 4 or 5 using the mysql driver... we had to be rewritten in PHP 7 with PDO?

[B i r n o u]

lucky those of us who wrote their project at the time in pure OOP and based on a MVC architecture... but how many of us anticipated it?

let's be reasonable... without being at the time of the disposable... let's minimize the costs of projects so that our customers don't have fortunes to deploy... fortune that sooner or later will have to be reinjected into the pipes because somehow the projects in place will be exceeded...

as long as rapid writing tools are in place, this will help to shorten development times....

[osgood_]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

as long as rapid writing tools are in place, this will help to shorten development times....

It should not be just about this obsession with shortened development times if it means a loss of quality or taking short cuts. There has to be a balance between providing a professional service, good customer care and relations and being honest upfront, not hiding things. That's what I feel is important anyway.

[pziecina]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

on my side, as you Paula, I try as best I can to follow the project and keep it afloat and make it evolve... but it is not a generality that is expected by the customer, nor the team.

Trouble is Birnou, as the senior project manager it was expected of me to be concerned with customer/user relations, and I'm finding it difficult not to think of what was expected of me, compared to what is possibly the normal, 'develop, upload, forget', way for many developers.

Old habits die hard.

[B i r n o u]

I understand your reasoning and I share it, in the fact that we work more or less in the same spheres, however, let's keep in mind not to mix two types of projects...

as Al rightly pointed out, there are projects that require whole teams, teams that are coordinated and have to meet millimetre specifications... and projects that are led by one person alone and have completely different needs and expectations (in terms of tools).

[BenPleysier]

osgood_  wrote

Whilst I am called all kind of things by Ben mostly 'small-minded' in this thread - its strange how the regulars who post, most who hate my guts see that as invisible yet they are quick to berate me for retaliating. I actually find it quite amusing, funny and entertaining to expose their insecurities and weaknesses.

I  specifically asked Ben did his mentor George say that Brians website was ugly - strange its all gone silent on that front, so I must be right, infact I know I'm right, yet again - BUT he berates me for suggesting the website is not as polished as it maybe should be. I didnt see him berate George.

He calls me a spy yet his other old aquaintance Thedore or whatever the guys name is is 'spying' in this thread and liking Bens post/s.........my  sides are really, really hurting you know from the laughter and amusing comments, two faced or what.

I rest my case.

A few facts:

• You show rigid opinions and a narrow outlook which defines 'small-minded'.
• George is not my mentor
• George never said that Brian's site was 'ugly'.
• Teodor K has every right to come here, he is a registered user of Adobe products. It is easy to see who he is, to see his name, view an image of his, see his works and other activities. He does not hide behind a pseudonym which spies are renowned for.
• I do not 'hate your guts', I reserve that feeling for my enemies. In you I just see a complicated victim of his surroundings. If it is within your personality, I am willing to end this feuding whenever it suits you. Please take into account that, outside of your inaccuracies of facts and personal attacks,  I commend you for your work on this forum.

Peace be with you.

[osgood_]

BenPleysier  wrote

A few facts:

• You show rigid opinions and a narrow outlook which defines 'small-minded'.

I'd go so far to say that is a perfect description of yourself

BenPleysier  wrote

• George never said that Brian's site was 'ugly'.

Then you missed that post which seemed to have 'mysteriously' disappeared........shame. If it wasnt the word 'ugly' he used he definitely wasn't too pleased with the first attempt so Brian, to his credit, cleaned it up a bit to what it is now. I distinctly remember the post as I thought well that was a bit 'forward' but hey I like people who say what they are thinking, no harm if that generates an improved the solution.

BenPleysier  wrote

• https://forums.adobe.com/people/Teodor+K has every right to come here, he is a registered user of Adobe products. It is easy to see who he is, to see his name, view an image of his, see his works and other activities. He does not hide behind a pseudonym which spies are renowned for

As I have every right to sit in on the other forums without being accused of being a spy, hilarious - as you say 'small-minded'

BenPleysier  wrote

• I do not 'hate your guts', I reserve that feeling for my enemies. In you I just see a complicated victim of his surroundings. If it is within your personality, I am willing to end this feuding whenever it suits you. Please take into account that, outside of your inaccuracies of facts and personal attacks,  I commend you for your work on this forum.

Well thanks for your concern. The only victim I see myself as is a victim of exposing the truth and as you know its sometimes hard for some people to want to hear the truth. I only make personal attacks when I am personally attacked and those that do not wish to enage me in that, should'nt make them. It was after all you who once again started the personal attacks by calling me 'small-minded'and STILL implying I'm small-minded not once BUT twice, in your latest replies, so you're hugley insincere or just can't help yourself. How can I take you seriously. I dont see it as feuding just two minds, totally poles apart, thats life it happens, we both have our opinions.

[BenPleysier]

Sadly no olive branch.

[osgood_]

BenPleysier  wrote

Sadly no olive branch.

Not on this ocassion as its never going to work out. If we ever met up (figaratively speaking) and agreed NOT to discuss web-development I'm sure we'd get along just fine. I'd be more than happy to buy you a drink or two.