CSS Grid and Variables

[mtartist]

So to be clear, I have been a loyal supporter of DW since before Adobe acquired it from Macromedia, I owned GoLive and used it for many years, but I have to say I am very disappointed in the support we have today for CSS Grid and Variables - two things that are destined to make design for the web a shit ton easier... Adobe is way behind the curve on these... since Oct of 2017 this, put simply, has been the only way to design for the web. Nothing else makes sense. I believe I am moving to MS VS Code, because it is even better than Brackets in responding to the evolution of the web. But I want the powers that be at Adobe to know why they have lost my loyalty and my money... and to those struggling designers out there that wish to keep up. The clear choice is VS Studio Code - it is FREE, it works and it supports the latest algorithms published by the leading web browsers... you can see changes in your advanced CSS in real time... no preprocessors, no git, no bs.

[W_J_T]

Hi mtartist

Another alternative, which I'm not sure if you have looked at it is Pinegrow. It supports CSS Grid & Variables and so much more, through its - visual tools, direct code and live in app preview.

Here is a basic overview of Pinegrow and CSS Grid aspect:

https://medium.com/@mattront/how-to-learn-css-grid-with-pinegrow-e865ece2e137

It might be something worth looking into, based upon the things you wrote in your post. It also works directly with Atom, and can be used with various other editors also.

[osgood_]

mtartist  wrote

The clear choice is VS Studio Code - it is FREE, it works and it supports the latest algorithms published by the leading web browsers... you can see changes in your advanced CSS in real time... no preprocessors, no git, no bs.

Depends how you look at things VS Code has no intuitive snippets creator or snippets panel, it has no file management......does that make it way behind? Funny this editors 'wars' none really cut it - they all have something desirable missing. Its a case of picking the best from a really, really bad bunch.

[pziecina]

osgood_  wrote

Depends how you look at things VS Code has no intuitive snippets creator or snippets panel, it has no file management......does that make it way behind?

VS Code does have some projects managment features via extensions, that offer some of Dw's file managment features, (file paths, etc) and extensions for snippets but no panel.

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

osgood_   wrote

Depends how you look at things VS Code has no intuitive snippets creator or snippets panel, it has no file management......does that make it way behind?

VS Code does have some projects managment features via extensions, that offer some of Dw's file managment features, (file paths, etc) and extensions for snippets but no panel.

Can you remember what these extensions are called because I havent come across them?

[pziecina]

https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/editor/multi-root-workspaces

https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/editor/userdefinedsnippets

Edit - forgot this one for file paths

https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=christian-kohler.path-intellisense

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/editor/multi-root-workspaces

https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/editor/userdefinedsnippets

I know about the snippets workflow, its disgusting as is the one in Atom. Who really wants to store all their snippets in a single json file and more so who wants to spend time formating a json file to store those snippets, can anyone really remember what abbr key they allocated to ALL their snippets. Have you ever tried to create a snippet in Atom, one single comma out of place and the whole json file fails....sorry but this is a completley ridiculous workflow for any editor even a free one.........which is why DW does indeed have some useful features.

Any editor that doesnt have a snippet panel and way of creating snippets easily has failed in my view. I dont even go there only to pull it to pieces.

[pziecina]

Have you checked out the web dev extensions?

For the OP -

https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=pavel.css-vars-fallback

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

Have you checked out the web dev extensions?

For the OP -

https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=pavel.css-vars-fallback

Once the basics are in place I will consider what else an editor has to offer VC Code doesnt have the basics in my opinion.

[pziecina]

osgood_  wrote

Once the basics are in place I will consider what else an editor has to offer VC Code doesnt have the basics in my opinion.

why do you think I use VS Pro -

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/visualstudio/ide/code-snippets

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

osgood_   wrote

Once the basics are in place I will consider what else an editor has to offer VC Code doesnt have the basics in my opinion.

why do you think I use VS Pro -

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/visualstudio/ide/code-snippets

Exactly. I have zero idea why the developers of Atom, VC Code (Free), Sublime and to a certain extent Brackets, although that does have a couple of poor snippets extensions, never thought it a key feature to have when they where developing the software. Are the majority all software developers really that dumb in terms of knowing what the user of their products require as a basic starting point? Snippet panels in web-editors have been around since year dot, it cant be that difficult to write one and deploy it in a logical, sensible and easy to create workflow. Its not many many web-editor have excellent snippet panel but they are crap at everything else!

My brain is in meltdown living in this dam world - no-one but no-one has any common sense these days!

[pziecina]

A lot of the cheaper and free code editors are not meant for the professional, and vs code especially is the 'little brother' of VS Pro, with only basic functionality compared to its big brother. Its probably a marketing ploy, in that once one discovers what is missing the user will buy VS Pro.

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

A lot of the cheaper and free code editors are not meant for the professional, and vs code especially is the 'little brother' of VS Pro, with only basic functionality compared to its big brother. Its probably a marketing ploy, in that once one discovers what is missing the user will buy VS Pro.

Ok well Im still waiting..........its going to be a long wait I feel.

[W_J_T]

pziecina  wrote

A lot of the cheaper and free code editors are not meant for the professional

osgood_  wrote

Ok well Im still waiting..........its going to be a long wait I feel.

No offense intended here people, I hesitated to post but I strongly feel comments such as these are getting rather silly and without merit.

So I guess all the people who can hand code various flavors of: HTML/CSS/JS/PHP/SASS/LESS/Stylus/PUG/Emmet/Typescript/Coffeescript/Babel/Angular/React/Vue / ( insert endless list here ) directly in Browser Dev Tools, or JSBin, JSFiddle, Codepen, StackExchange, BitBucket, Gist / Github , etc., ( another endless list here ) or any Free IDE Code Editor should not be deemed professional due to what they are typing in being “Free” ? The notion that a person needs to pay for a code editor or instead use something specific tool, to be “professional” really has no merit and is rather insulting to the industry as a whole, especially developers.

It’s interesting that some mythical editor with every feature desired by every developer does not currently exist. Yet its absence has not slowed the industry or individuals from moving forward. Fortunately adaptability and moving ahead regardless of constraints is why the web is where it is today. Imagine if everyone was waiting around for some special IDE, or for that matter 100% browser support to move ahead, etc.,

There is no need for anyone to wait on special features or mythical IDE’s, the industry as a whole proves that daily. Not to mention evolves too fast to sit around waiting for special requirements in an editor. If people get tripped up so easily on which IDE, Pre-Processor, ( another endless list could go here ) etc., then how professional are they, that they are so restricted and so easily hindered in their chosen field ? People simply need to learn markup, how to code, etc., start developing and never stop learning. Any tools or processes are the low hanging fruit in that overall equation. Knowledge and comprehension are a much bigger part of professionalism than any specific tool. Anyone can learn an IDE, but sadly most people fail to understand the underlying methodologies and standards.

[osgood_]

W_J_T  wrote

pziecina   wrote

A lot of the cheaper and free code editors are not meant for the professional

osgood_   wrote

Ok well Im still waiting..........its going to be a long wait I feel.

No offense intended here people, I hesitated to post but I strongly feel comments such as these are getting rather silly and without merit.

So I guess all the people who can hand code various flavors of: HTML/CSS/JS/PHP/SASS/LESS/Stylus/PUG/Emmet/Typescript/Coffeescript/Babel/Angular/React/Vu e / ( insert endless list here ) directly in Browser Dev Tools, or JSBin, JSFiddle, Codepen, StackExchange, BitBucket, Gist / Github , etc., ( another endless list here ) or any Free IDE Code Editor should not be deemed professional due to what they are typing in being “Free” ? The notion that a person needs to pay for a code editor or instead use something specific tool, to be “professional” really has no merit and is rather insulting to the industry as a whole, especially developers.

It’s interesting that some mythical editor with every feature desired by every developer does not currently exist. Yet its absence has not slowed the industry or individuals from moving forward. Fortunately adaptability and moving ahead regardless of constraints is why the web is where it is today. Imagine if everyone was waiting around for some special IDE, or for that matter 100% browser support to move ahead, etc.,

There is no need for anyone to wait on special features or mythical IDE’s, the industry as a whole proves that daily. Not to mention evolves too fast to sit around waiting for special requirements in an editor. If people get tripped up so easily on which IDE, Pre-Processor, ( another endless list could go here ) etc., then how professional are they, that they are so restricted and so easily hindered in their chosen field ? People simply need to learn markup, how to code, etc., start developing and never stop learning. Any tools or processes are the low hanging fruit in that overall equation. Knowledge and comprehension are a much bigger part of professionalism than any specific tool. Anyone can learn an IDE, but sadly most people fail to understand the underlying methodologies and standards.

Its whats desired by the individual. What is frustrating is there are some reasonably good editors available apart from a couple of BIG missing components.

I mean even you can't be suggesing that the snippets workflow in Atom is highly desirable, open a json file, format the snippet taking great care to insert each element on individual lines, include some proprietory json coding otherwise it will kill the file stone dead..........meanwhile in the real world like Netbeans you just select the code in the editor and drag it to the snippets panel, name the snippet, job done, organise into folders. Similarly that's what you do in other programs 7/8 years old. I don't want to be coding snippets every time I need to produce one.

Yes I know you can get seperate progams for storing snippets but personally I prefer to limit the number of programs I need to produce a website, hence I have issues using stuff like Prepos, Codekit because it becomes extra to manage.

Coding is coding and I'm a coder but even I dont want to keep writing a connection string to a database or query a database or code a nav over and over again or modal window..........hence a snippets panel I believe is one of the must haves in any web-editor and one that you dont have to jump through hoops to manage and maintain.

Theres only one or two things missing for me but those are big on my agenda. The failure in most editors to prefix css without using sass or less or a third party workflow like grunt, gulp or prepros is just plain ignorant in this day and age. Coda, to a certain extent pre-fixed some css 5 years ago without resorting to all that garbage, so it can be done. Its just a shame the guys at Panic dropped the ball to concentrate on progamming games.

In the main I agree with you about learning to code BUT we still need a few 'home comforts' from time to time.

[pziecina]

O/k, not much is happening at the moment, so lets have that discussion of just who is a professional web developer.

Billions of people drive motor vehicles of various types every day, but are all those people professional riders/drivers, no. Millions repair motor vehicles every day, are all those professional engineers, no. Millions also own their own buisnesses, sometimes employing hundreds or even thousands of other people, are they all professional managers, again no.

The fact that millions are programming websites or building apps, some even earning millions, also does not mean they are all professionals. In every walk of life there are people who do something for an hobby, just because they are interested, or even because someone asked them to do something. Yes, a few of those people will go on to become professionals in what they do, most may/will obtain one or more qualifications in their previous hobby, but many will not, and those people do not simply become professionals, even though they have all the tools, a place to carry out what is/was their 'hobby', or employ others.

Being a professional, covers much more than knowing how to code, (no matter how many languages one knows) it also covers knowing how the chosen professions industry, and that industries structure works. It can take a few years or many years to obtain this knowledge, and once that knowledge is obtained the learning does not stop there, it continues for life.

There is an interesting article about web developers getting involved in the process of building a site from the very beginning at -

http://alistapart.com/article/owning-the-role-of-the-front-end-developer

Until someone knows how the entire process works, and can do all that is required for their position, be that as an individual who is working alone, or a senior manager in a large company/organisation, (plus every position inbetween) they are not professionals. That does not mean they must work in all of those positions, be able to do every position or even be interested in learning every position, just that they should know what is involved and what those other positions do, even if there are seperate qualifications and requirerments for others involved.

[W_J_T]

Thanks for taking time to write all that, but it honestly does not really address the point which I stated, or the point you originally made.

[pziecina]

Actually it does, you are saying that just because someone can code or use xyz utilities, they are professionals, and any tool they use free or not, is for professionals.

All I pointed out in my original statement, is that many of those tools are not aimed at or used by web development professionals. A typical example of that is the Brackets code editor, as almost 50% of its users are Adobe CC subscribers. Then there is all the 'other' free or almost free editors, that are aimed at coders in general, (no matter what the language) not web developers in particular, or programmers. At best many, (if not most) are for users with a general interest, hobbyists, and students. Most of which will never ever develop websites/apps professionally.

[W_J_T]

pziecina  wrote

Actually it does, you are saying that just because someone can code or use xyz utilities, they are professionals, and any tool they use free or not, is for professionals.

You may wish to re-read it again if that it what you gathered from it. In the meantime see your blanket statements continue.

[pziecina]

W_J_T  wrote

In the meantime see your blanket statements continue.

They are not called blanket statements, but generalisations.

[W_J_T]

You are too caught up with semantics, however the point remains un-addressed by your generalizations (as you prefer to refer to them).

[pziecina]

Generalisation means to talk about something in general terms, without specifics.

Now, what was your question again ?

[W_J_T]

If you wish to focus on definitive meanings, then you may wish to refresh you understanding of the term 'professional' from a dictionary also, and how that relates to your past statements.

Forrest ~ Trees

[BenPleysier]

More importantly, what is understood under the term Professional Web Developer?

[pziecina]

BenPleysier  wrote

More importantly, what is understood under the term Professional Web Developer?

Is someone earning their living who just codes a professional web developer, or a professional coder?