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Does anyone think this forum is an improvement?

Community Beginner ,
Apr 06, 2009 Apr 06, 2009

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The previous webforum/NNTP interface had roughly 90 percent of the questions coming from the webforum, and 90 percent of the mostly correct replies coming from the NNTP newgroup users.

The newsgroup users are for the most part NOT going to use this web forum.

so for the most part- there are 50 or 100 people who tried to offer help daily, who are not "in here" and won't participate because this web forum interface is just slow and clunky and flashy. We just want TEXT. NNTP. WORDS.

I've been ACE and TMM longer than i can remember. Not renewing.

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Deleted User
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

But you still asked it in this thread, as did the other user.  Give people a chance to get used to the new forum before you start sprouting on about how things should be done.

The question was asked to bring David back to the substance of this forum -- not to pollute a discussion that is already out of place in it.  Llke everyone, David is a  creature of habit.  Unlike everyone, he holds a leadership position in this forum and others and should be made aware of the bad example that he is setting.

...

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Engaged ,
Apr 07, 2009 Apr 07, 2009

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One more thing…

I get the feeling that Adobe needs to clean house. The captain of this ship doesn't seem to have a proper compass.

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Guest
Apr 07, 2009 Apr 07, 2009

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LRK, Such nautical terms. I guess that's a lot better than using other sailor language these forums deserve.

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Guest
Apr 07, 2009 Apr 07, 2009

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I'm searching but not finding... is there a way to bookmark a thread? Like the old threads, so I can easily come back to the thread I want to follow up on?

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LEGEND ,
Apr 07, 2009 Apr 07, 2009

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Saskatchewanobie wrote:

I'm searching but not finding... is there a way to bookmark a thread? Like the old threads, so I can easily come back to the thread I want to follow up on?

I don't think you can currently. This would be an important addition and we should request it.

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Engaged ,
Apr 07, 2009 Apr 07, 2009

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LRK, Such nautical terms.

Sorry about that. I love nautical terms because they represent life in so many cool ways.

On another note, I would like to at least make one suggestion. It would be helpful if we could set our preferences to reverse the order of each thread, to where the last post is at the top, and so forth. This would at least prevent the continuous need to find the last page to see what has been posted.

As for bookmarking, at this point I guess the best we can do is use our browsers to bookmark. Not very high tech I admit but it looks like high tech has turned on it's heals and we are headed the other direction.

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LEGEND ,
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

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It would be helpful if we could set our preferences to reverse the order of each thread, to where the last post is at the top, and so forth.

I think that might be rather confusing. However, there is already a very convenient way to get to the most recent post. Just click XX (minutes|hours) ago above the person's name in the Last Post column of the main discussion list. That takes you directly to the last post.

If you're already inside a thread, there's a "last post" link at the top of the page.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

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for outsiders-  think about it.

THIS topic i started has over 400 reads.

The old nntp/webforum setup did 300+ messages a day. This is not doing that. Can't see any overall stats because every link i click opens something else...

What number of new questions have good answers.

What IS the number of new questions.

massive fail.

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LEGEND ,
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

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The old nntp/webforum setup did 300+ messages a day.

In the three months prior to the switchover, this forum and the Dreamweaver Application Development forum did a combined average of 270 messages a day.

This is not doing that. Can't see any overall stats because every link i click opens something else...

A very crude way of estimating is to count the number of posts and replies. The first page of 30 posts contains approximately 130 replies. To get to posts that are more than one day old, you need to go back to the fourth page. Yesterday, this forum was just as busy, if not busier, than it used to be. To get an accurate count, just subscribe to the forum by email. I unsubscribed because I couldn't cope with the flood of messages.

Yes, I would like to see NNTP restored, but the only way to persuade Adobe to do so is by using well thought-out arguments.

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Guest
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

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A very crude way of estimating is to count the number of posts and replies. The first page of 30 posts contains approximately 130 replies.

The value of this forum should not be measured by the number of posts and replies, rather by the number of issues that it solves.  The "crude" measure that you are suggesting is more likely to measure the amount of noise that this forum produces than its effectiveness in helping people better understand Adobe products and how to use them to their advantage.

If we are looking for a good indicator of this forum's success, then we should be looking at the number of solved issues as functions of the following:

1)  The total number of posts.

2)  The total number of responses.

3)  The average number of visits to unresolved problems.

4)  etc.

The argument that Newsgroup Users cannot see whether a problem has been resolved or not should no longer be an issue, as everyone is working in the same medium. 

. . . the only way to persuade Adobe to do so is by using well thought-out arguments.

Adobe is likely no better positioned to cut through the noise than any of its contributers.  Well-reasoned arguments are easily lost amidst mayhem.

Roddy

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Advisor ,
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

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If we are looking for a good indicator of this forum's success, then we should be looking at the number of solved issues as functions of the following:

1)  The total number of posts.
2)  The total number of responses.
3)  The average number of visits to unresolved problems.
4)  etc.

Are those mutually exclusive? If so, I choose #4.

The argument that Newsgroup Users cannot see whether a problem has been resolved or not should no longer be an issue, as everyone is working in the same medium.

What gives you that idea?

--
Mark A. Boyd
Keep-On-Learnin'

Message was edited by: Mark A. Boyd (added my sig)

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Guest
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

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Are those mutually exclusive?

What would give you reason to believe that they are mutually exclusive?

What gives you that idea?

There are only two ways to respond to questions of which I am aware.

1)  Go online, enter the forum, and observe the results.

2)  Respond to questions through email.

Certainly with regard to the first you cannot help but observe, whether a questions has been checked as resolved.  Do you not receive some indication of the same through email?

Roddy

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Advisor ,
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

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I am not aware of a "resolved" email notification, but maybe I haven't

participated in such a thread yet.

Is it your experience that threads marked as answered are accurate and

reliable?

--

Mark A. Boyd

Keep-on-learnin'

via iPhone

Message was edited by: Mark A. Boyd. Interesting. I was able to change my "on" to "in" in my emailed post from the Web interface.

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Guest
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

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Is it your experience that threads marked as answered are accurate and reliable?

As there is no one to monitor the quality of posts anyway, does it matter?

Important is that the Asker walks away satisfied.  If his satisfaction should prove illusionary, then he can always come back with a new question or reopen his old one.  In fact, reopening an old question should automatically require removal of the user's previous satisfaction setting.

Also, important is that the so-called ACEs of this forum encourage users to make use of the setting.

Roddy

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Advisor ,
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

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2)  Respond to questions through email.

Curious. My earlier email reply took almost 20 minutes to appear here. I didn't have this problem in a different thread.


If email cannot be relied upon, I'm afraid this forum is even less useful than I had initially hoped. I'm not an RSS kind of guy, so I can't speak to that aspect.


As for "Resolved" or "Answered", I don't think they carry much weight at all. I am under the impression that the vast majority of Web forum newbies don't bother to look at previous threads at all. "Answered" is completely useless for that majority. I know there are exceptions, but I suspect that those who actually do look for past posts are smart enough to distinguish the quality of the answers for themselves.

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Guest
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

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As for "Resolved" or "Answered", I don't think they carry much weight at all. I am under the impression that the vast majority of Web forum newbies don't bother to look at previous threads at all. "Answered" is completely useless for that majority. I know there are exceptions, but I suspect that those who actually do look for past posts are smart enough to distinguish the quality of the answers for themselves.

This statement appears based on the forum's past technology -- not on its current format.

Roddy

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Engaged ,
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

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And, we've already got people playing cops... shades of 1984...

This thread was locked / closed:

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/415234?tstart=0

This thread is the response:

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/416527?tstart=0

Policing stinks... who gives who the right to close threads?

Can understand under extreme conditions... but this?

JJ

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LEGEND ,
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

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kiusau wrote:


The argument that Newsgroup Users cannot see whether a problem has been resolved or not should no longer be an issue, as everyone is working in the same medium. 

Completely wrong. Although NNTP access has been removed, it's perfectly possible to do everything through email or an RSS feed. I'm monitoring several forums through email, which displays no icons, avatars, or images.

The question of whether an issue has been "resolved" is also moot. An inexperienced person is quite likely to mark a question as "answered", even if the answer is wrong, incomplete, or no longer represents best practice. Moreover, once a question has been marked as "answered", the setting cannot be changed. Things are not quite so clear cut as you seem to think.

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Guest
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

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Completely wrong. Although NNTP access has been removed, it's perfectly possible to do everything through email or an RSS feed. I'm monitoring several forums through email, which displays no icons, avatars, or images.

One does not require an icon, avatar, or image to receive an indication that a topic has been resolved.  The same information could be passed through text.  Is it not?  :smile

In any case this diverges from the question of measuring this forum's success.

The question of whether an issue has been "resolved" is also moot. An inexperienced person is quite likely to mark a question as "answered", even if the answer is wrong, incomplete, or no longer represents best practice.

The last time I posted in this regard it was in response to how one might measure success in this forum.  Within this context I would much prefer a measure of consumer satisfaction over the "crude" measure of noise that you have suggested.

Moreover, once a question has been marked as "answered", the setting cannot be changed.

Obviously a weakness in the system, but still a better indicator of success than your proposed measure of noise.

Things are not quite so clear cut as you seem to think.

If you ever knew how I thought, then communication between us would not be so difficult.  Once again, your thoughts with regard to the vertical centering of text in a floated <span> tag would be greatly appreciated.  Just do not provide them here, as this is not where I posed the original question.

Roddy

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Guest
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

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"the only way to persuade Adobe to do so is by using well thought-out arguments."

The old forums, the way they were a week ago, needed no "well thought-out arguments" because they were serving everyone well enough as they were. Now we have problems. I post here, and thankfully am able to get help with questions, but it is now now 'shoot from the hip' 'get in and get out' because it is not possible to keep track of information for more than 24 hours without doing quantum physics to manage threads and keep track of input.

These forums are on the level that works best for teenagers talking about last night's date, not for serious professionals who need in-depth tracking of questions and responses.

Could Adobe understand that logic?

My hope is that these forums will be restored to their better more useable format that we had a week ago and now have lost.

A Cry In The Wilderness,

Ken

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Community Expert ,
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

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"These forums are on the level that works best for teenagers talking about last night's date, not for serious professionals who need in-depth tracking of questions and responses."

Well put.

Sadly I don't think any well-thought out arguments here will have any influence on getting NNTP access back.

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LEGEND ,
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

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I don't think any well-thought out arguments here will have any influence on getting NNTP access back.

You're right. This isn't the place for such arguments. The place for discussing what you love and hate about these forums is in the Forum Comments forum (http://forums.adobe.com/community/general/forum_comments), which is closely monitored by Adobe employees who are in a position to make changes to the way things operate.

Venting feelings here might let off steam, but no one here has the power to change things.

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Community Expert ,
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

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You're right. This isn't the place for such arguments. The place for discussing what you love and hate about these forums is in the Forum Comments forum (http://forums.adobe.com/community/general/forum_comments), which is closely monitored by Adobe employees who are in a position to make changes to the way things operate.

I've thought about doing so several times but I'm convinced that Adobe is not interested.

They might tweak the web forums but they won't bring back NNTP.

So I've decided not to waste my time posting there.

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LEGEND ,
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

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So why waste your time posting here? Or is it just letting off steam?

Even if Adobe takes no notice of comments in the forum set up specifically for feedback, at least you'll know you tried to make your voice heard, but it was ignored. Whereas complaining here is guaranteed to fall on stony ground.

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Community Expert ,
Apr 08, 2009 Apr 08, 2009

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Just finishing what I had to say, however futile.

No more to add now

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New Here ,
Apr 09, 2009 Apr 09, 2009

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I tried - crashed 3 times and gave up

Subject: New message: "Does anyone think this forum is an improvement?"

supergran 123,

A new message was posted in the thread "Does anyone think this forum is an improvement?":

http://forums.adobe.com/message/1878507#1878507

Author : John Waller

Profile : http://forums.adobe.com/people/John%20Waller

Message:

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