Dreamweaver vs Bubble.is

[wwashington0001]

Hi all,

I'm new to Dreamweaver but I'm also looking at Bubble.is... I've got a web app that I want to build and I'm trying to find a comparison between these two products.  Can someone help me out on this?  I know Dreamweaver is good at building website, but what about web apps or progressive web apps?  What's the workflow compared to Bubble.is?

Thanks in advance

[Nancy OShea]

There is no comparison.  Dreamweaver is for people who want to work with code and who have their own web hosting.

Bubble is  another drag & drop DIY online web service that includes hosting on their cloud instances.  If might be great or not.  I've never tried it.

[WolfShade]

I'll never try it.  Sounds like a nightmare, to me.

wwashington0001​, it may take some time to learn to code (assuming you don't already), but the effort is TOTALLY worth it.  Learn HTML5, CSS, JavaScript/jQuery, and some kind of server-side language like ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, etc.  Then you can use DreamWeaver, or Brackets, or NotePad++, or just about any 'real' IDE.  Don't use some drag-n-drop, cookie-cutter online service.

Just my honest opinion.

V/r,

^ _ ^

[wwashington0001]

WolfShade​​  Its actually not a nightmare at all. I only asked the question because I've never used Dreamweaver and from what I saw on Adobe's website I thought they offered a lot of the samethings, like being able to work in the WYSIWYG or drag-and-drop area while the tool converts it to code, but then I can do some light coding when needed.  I've not seen anyone talk about using Dreamweaver to make progressive web apps, so I wasn't sure it could be done, which it can in Bubble.is.... But the added benefit Dreamweaver would give me is not having to pay for Bubble's services. 

I myself know HTML5, CSS3, and a little bit with JavaScript and there is nothing with those languages I can't do with Bubble.is.  The catch for me is the backend language and database and creating unique interactions.  I've been wanting to learn Python instead of PHP, but I've noticed that Bubble.is builds the PHP code in the background but still allows you to edit it, which I won't because I don't know PHP.  Bubble actually comes highly recommended by some really good developers and some tech companies that you know about have looked into it because it automates some processes.  Its just the fees and hosting fees I'm trying to get away from and like I said looks like Dreamweaver offered a lot of the same thing and I could put it on my own hosting servers.  So that's why I asked.

[osgood_]

I could be wrong but Bubble looks like another one of those ever increasing awful workflows that may be good for 'lazy' developers and the developers of such 'product' but really useless for the client?

Is the Bubble code transportable?

Bubble doesnt seem to  be main stream and most likely uses some kind of niche workflow to output the website through build files.

If I were a client paying top dollar I would want something produced which afforded me (as the client) the option to move the website to another 'main-stream' developer if I was dissatisfied with the current one for any reason, not some 'artificial' unrecognised workflow which may present problems for me to source a developer who knows about such minority niche workflows.

I feel sorry for clients these days, this game is filling up fast with unprofessional operators - clients dont know what shite they are getting themselves into and I'm sure the 'unwashed' arent going to inform them.

[wwashington0001]

Don't think Bubble is mainstream but I did find out about if because a few large tech companies we're starting to look it over and really weighing using it.

The code is exportable though..... Bubble is built in CoffeeScript and running on Node.js though....

[osgood_]

wwashington0001  wrote

The code is exportable though..... Bubble is built in CoffeeScript and running on Node.js though....

Biggest issue for me, as with a lot of these modern workflows (vue.js CLI is an example) Bubble obviously uses build files in the workflow somewhere to compile the final js output which then delivers the page to the browser.

Without the build files the website is useless if any other developer is requested to change or add something by a client not happy with the relationship with the original developer. More and more of this unethical practice is slowly increasing and clients most probably, in many case, know nothing about it...........until it's too late.

I think its something that any serious developer should consider as we have a duty to work with the client in mind and whats best for them rather than try and cover up our own own inabilities by using poor mostly 'undocumented' practices or where limited advice/help/ guidance can be sourced.

Good news at least Bubble is Bootstrap free, which can only be positive.....so its going in the right direction.

[Nancy OShea]

osgood_  wrote

I think its something that any serious developer should consider as we have a duty to work with the client in mind and whats best for them rather than try and cover up our own own inabilities by using poor mostly 'undocumented' practices or where limited advice/help/ guidance can be sourced.

Arguably I think the target Bubble developer is not you or me.  It's an agency that cranks out $3K and $10K startup sties in 1-2 weeks or less because they can  https://airdev.co/ ​

[osgood_]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

Arguably I think the target Bubble developer is not you or me.  

I know who the target is. The skilless get rich quick crowd, with no morales. Most fail, leaving a financial trail of misery behind them. I think that sums the target up, without being too abusively critical.

[wwashington0001]

Nancy OShea​ Thanks for that. I didn't realize that Dreamweaver was for those who want to work with code exclusively. I did see a WISYWIG component to it but then see's that it translates all of that to code. So I figured you could work with the WISYWIG portion and do light coding when needed, then put it on whatever server you want.  Its the backend language I'd need help with API's to hook into controling hardware components in regards to PWA's. I do by the way have my own hosting through HostGator but needed to transfer that to AWS and I see that Bubble.is is already on AWS but charges that extra fee which I hate but offers for me to work with the WISYWIG and do light coding when needed. Now that I know they aren't the same thing I appreciate it. Thanks 

[Nancy OShea]

wwashington0001  wrote

Its the backend language I'd need help with API's to hook into controling hardware components in regards to PWA's.

Dreamweaver can't do backend coding for you. 

Wappler is a visual web app creator.  Some people use it alongside DW.

https://wappler.io/index

[wwashington0001]

Thank you Nancy.... This is exactly what I was looking for Wappler looks very interesting. Its something similar to Bubble where you can design websites and web apps and mobile apps, it has the visual programming element to it will also giving you access to the coding element and can edit that way.  Great part of it is that they don't provide hosting so I can use my own servers. I did see how you can import your Dreamweaver projects into Wappler to complete the backend and API connections. I wonder why Adobe hasn't put that into Dreamweaver, or was that what ColdFusion was for?  Wappler does look like a better option than what I was looking at in the beginning however it looks relatively new, maybe just over 1 year old..... I'll give it a shot along side DW.

Thanks

[BenPleysier]

Wappler is basically the same as Dreamweaver extended with DMXzone extensions.To see wat I mean have a look at Building a Responsive Layout with Bootstrap 4 Version 2 - YouTube . This video shows the WYSIWYG that you are talking about. To see more videos of the same ilk go to DMXzone - YouTube

One of the many differences between Dreamweaver and Wappler is that the latter has the extensions included.

[Brad Lawryk]

Another difference that is quite significant is that Wappler gets updates every week with new features and any fixes if needed. Also the developers are directly involved in the community and support.

[Nancy OShea]

wwashington0001  wrote

I wonder why Adobe hasn't put that into Dreamweaver, or was that what ColdFusion was for?

No.  We all  wonder the exact same thing since 2013 when Adobe scrapped the old fashioned server-behavior panels and never replaced them with new & improved ones.  Long story short, Adobe left that to 3rd party extension makers thus ridding themselves of the problem. 

[wwashington0001]

I've mentioned Wappler in a thread there and so far a bunch of people said that it looks promising and thought they catered to similar crowds...

[Brad Lawryk]

The whole concept of Bubble.is very much reminds me of Adobe's Business Catalyst. We all know how that turned out.

[wwashington0001]

Thanks all for your input.  I've done more research on this topic and while people on here don't hold the Bubble.is platform in high regard, I come to understand why. As one person said on here, Wappler/Dreamweaver and Bubble.is are for different target markets, that is very much true. Wappler/Dreamweaver being for those with a stronger coding background than Bubble.is.  Bubble.is does allow those with coding experience to do further customization with code if they choose but its strength really is in the drag-and-drop.  But the separation in target market doesn't even stop here.

There are 3rd party developers developing apps for clients on Bubble, however what I'm seeing Bubble really being recommended for more, from people in the industry is for entrepreneurs building businesses and need an app to help execute the overall business they are trying to build. I'm seeing that Entrepreneurship Bootcamps are saying, "use this product (Bubble.is) to build your app and get your business going, let Bubble do all the management and maintenance for the app while you operate the business and make money, then down the road when it makes sense, make that decision if your business needs to hire in house developers or hire a 3rd party developer for the future of your app".  I'm seeing that they are saying this is the real niche for the Bubble.is platform. And judging by reviews from such bootcamps, Bubble.is is being quite successful at it..... with some choosing to move to a 3rd party developer but some choosing to stay on Bubble.

In regards to the code and exporting everything..... Bubble.is platform uses CoffeeScript and runs on Node.js..... The founders of it says that you can export the design of the pages but the one thing that'll need to be rebuilt when  you export is the application logic.  He goes on and says their goal however is to have Bubble.is grow with your app via your use of javascript  and API's. He even said you can integrate with GitHub to grab code and use in your app. So with that last bit they are pushing some coding experience with javascript. The founder actually says that Bubble.is was built to serve the same market as Wappler (much newer than Bubble is) and said they both have drag-and-drop but also have the coding element to it. He says the approach of hosting it on your own servers vs letting the platform host it differently is the main difference, says they chose the hosting method because it allowed them to create much simpler approach to the back-end application logic and database. They also acknowledge that larger tech firms have looked into Bubble.is approach as well.  Lastly they say that Bubble.is platform is licensed in a way that if the actual company does go out of business that the platform and the back-end code becomes open sourced under the GNU General Public License.

With all of that said I myself and some others in the Bubble Community have found Wappler very intriguing and have started to try it out.  The main things that are pulling us to check out Wappler is #1 I can host the app on my own servers, and #2 I can use it to develop native mobile apps without using a 3rd party product.  With Bubble.is it does great in developing progressive web apps, but if I need to develop a native mobile app as well then the go to by their community is DropSource while still using Bubble.is as the backend,  they say you can use Phone Gap as well but they say there is much more maintenance when updates happen. With Wappler I got just 1 platform to use without the switching....  

[osgood_]

wwashington0001  wrote

Wappler/Dreamweaver being for those with a stronger coding background than Bubble.is.

Actually Wappler is specifically also aimed at non-coders, more like Bubble.is, the amatuer market. Those that really only tap into web-development infrequently as it's not their main job, although a minority of full-time developers, use both applications.

I would only recommend both solutions to those specfic categories, not those who want to pursue web-development to a serious level.

wwashington0001  wrote

There are 3rd party developers developing apps for clients on Bubble, however what I'm seeing Bubble really being recommended for more, from people in the industry is for entrepreneurs building businesses and need an app to help execute the overall business they are trying to build. I'm seeing that Entrepreneurship Bootcamps are saying, "use this product (Bubble.is) to build your app and get your business going, let Bubble do all the management and maintenance for the app while you operate the business and make money, then down the road when it makes sense, make that decision if your business needs to hire in house developers or hire a 3rd party developer for the future of your app".  I'm seeing that they are saying this is the real niche for the Bubble.is platform. And judging by reviews from such bootcamps, Bubble.is is being quite successful at it..... with some choosing to move to a 3rd party developer but some choosing to stay on Bubble.

Yes, I think that's a fair overview. Most 'entrepreneurs' will go bust within 6 months. It's like everyone, plus grannie, has a business idea these days to get rich quickly but don't want to pay out much money to realise their usually lousy idea - as I say the majority will wilt and vanish within a few months.

wwashington0001  wrote

In regards to the code and exporting everything..... Bubble.is platform uses CoffeeScript and runs on Node.js..... The founders of it says that you can export the design of the pages but the one thing that'll need to be rebuilt when  you export is the application logic.  He goes on and says their goal however is to have Bubble.is grow with your app via your use of javascript  and API's. He even said you can integrate with GitHub to grab code and use in your app. So with that last bit they are pushing some coding experience with javascript. The founder actually says that Bubble.is was built to serve the same market as Wappler (much newer than Bubble is) and said they both have drag-and-drop but also have the coding element to it. He says the approach of hosting it on your own servers vs letting the platform host it differently is the main difference, says they chose the hosting method because it allowed them to create much simpler approach to the back-end application logic and database. They also acknowledge that larger tech firms have looked into Bubble.is approach as well.  Lastly they say that Bubble.is platform is licensed in a way that if the actual company does go out of business that the platform and the back-end code becomes open sourced under the GNU General Public License.

Both solutions use some niche coding workflows, so buyer/client beware (especially client). You may struggle to find anyone experienced in such niche workflows if the situation changes. 

wwashington0001  wrote

With all of that said I myself and some others in the Bubble Community have found Wappler very intriguing and have started to try it out.  The main things that are pulling us to check out Wappler is #1 I can host the app on my own servers, and #2 I can use it to develop native mobile apps without using a 3rd party product.  With Bubble.is it does great in developing progressive web apps, but if I need to develop a native mobile app as well then the go to by their community is DropSource while still using Bubble.is as the backend,  they say you can use Phone Gap as well but they say there is much more maintenance when updates happen. With Wappler I got just 1 platform to use without the switching....  

There's no harm in trying any application to see if it suits your requirements, so long as someone provides you with an honest assessment, which you wont get on either native forum.

[wwashington0001]

Forgot to say that I did see people saying that Bubble.is is also being used in education as well.  Its being used to teach coding students the logic of the backend of apps.  So that is the other niche that Bubble.is has as well, which is different that Wappler/Dreamweaver too.

[osgood_]

wwashington0001  wrote

Forgot to say that I did see people saying that Bubble.is is also being used in education as well.  Its being used to teach coding students the logic of the backend of apps.  So that is the other niche that Bubble.is has as well, which is different that Wappler/Dreamweaver too.

I would disregard education, paid for or otherwise, but especially paid for. When has any education establishments actually employed anyone in tech that knows what they are doing. If they are putting forward Bubble.is as a serious way of hoping to get a career in web-development well the whole world is much more deluded that I originally thought.

[wwashington0001]

I understand what you are saying here..... When I saw this I figured that they were using Bubble just to teach concepts but then wheat use another language to put it in practice.  Like when I went to the University of KY as a Computer Science major, they taught us programming concepts in Alice but then we put it to real practice with the C++ Language. So my guess is in the educational realm they are swopping out Alice for Bubble but for use of gaining a foundation for learning the backend. But that's an assumption of mine, not something I know.

But I'm excited about Wappler though. I'm actually going to play around with both though....