Flexbox - run-around

Report · May 26, 2017

Does anyone know if a Flex column can run-around another Flex column?

For example: I have 2 columns set as 50% wide each in a Flex parent container. At a specific break point I set the 2nd column, which contains a background image, to 300px high.

What I want to happen is for the 1st Flex column, which contains text, to runaround (under the image) to fill up the width of the parent Flex container.

I can do this conventionally using float/block at the break point but as I'm using Flexbox it would be good to find a Flexbox only solution, maybe it's not Flexible enough to wander outside of a column structure?

Os

Report · Jun 13, 2017

I'm not going to join in the veiled insults here, as i can see the basics of both sides of the argument for and against the use of extensions.

The use of extensions, open source frameworks, and the ease of creating web sites with them, that some users find essential or just preferable, is not for me, but if time is money, and the developer does not have the time, knowledge or inclination to create the code themselves, then some people will find that extensions and/or frameworks are not just essential but necessary, in order to make the required time profit relationship possible.

Once one places the work enjoyment on par with profit, then work satisfaction becomes just as important, and extensions and frameworks become something that one can take or leave, as personal satisfaction in what one creates is just if not more important.

A lot also depends on what the developer is working on, the code used in a small 5-10 page sites, that has less than 1Gb of asset data, with simple front/back-end code would be completely unacceptable in a large corporate site, with Tb's of asset data, or i would think in a medium sized specialist e-comm site, that requires specialist features and knowledge of the clients target user requirements.

The above i think is also why Dw has become what it is, though no one will admit it. It is now targeted at the small web site developer, and probably no one who develops outside that field is represented within the Dw development process. This means that Dw becomes more focused on it's target audience, which is not a bad thing, but for those developing outside that target user base, they should not be ignored or expected to adopt the same workflow if Dw is to support them in their future.

Extensions and frameworks, are not the only way, thinking that they are does not encorage the personal of future development of users careers. Learning the 'how' without extensions or frameworks, then being able to use what one has learned in the most efficient way possible, is not possible using Dw at the moment, but it should be.

Report · Jun 13, 2017

pziecina wrote
The use of extensions, open source frameworks, and the ease of creating web sites with them, that some users find essential or just preferable, is not for me, but if time is money, and the developer does not have the time, knowledge or inclination to create the code themselves, then some people will find that extensions and/or frameworks are not just essential but necessary, in order to make the required time profit relationship possible.

If they dont have the time, knowledge or inclination then what are these 'developers' called - amateurs.

Yes, I'll accept that the use of extensions/frameworks, in some senarios, are used as a result of time-saving, low cost and a quick turnaround but that does not make them the correct solution, it just makes them a solution which is being forced upon the developer as a result of unrequired 'outside' forces. Amateurs, well they are amateurs - there are plenty of those around hence why Bootstrap claims to be the most used responsive framework - take the amatures away or make it a paid for solution and its popularity would drop off a cliff.

Report · Jun 13, 2017

osgood_ wrote
If they dont have the time, knowledge or inclination then what are these 'developers' called - amateurs.
Amateurs, well they are amateurs - there are plenty of those around hence why Bootstrap claims to be the most used responsive framework - take the amatures away or make it a paid for solution and its popularity would drop off a cliff.

As i said in another discussion, Dw is the only program i know of that thinks beginners and amateurs should be catered for, and yes if they charged for bootstrap it would be the same as Wordpress, if it was a paid solution, (about 0 users).

Given that back in 2012, 140000 new web sites were added to the internet every single day, and that the current number of bootstrap sites, (after 6 years) is about 120000000, i would say it does not have a commanding market.

Also if you look at the top 10000 sites, or 100000 sites, the number using bootstrap is almost zero -

https://trends.builtwith.com/docinfo/Twitter-Bootstrap

Edit, missed a zero of the bootstrap total.

Report · Jun 13, 2017

I have been there and done that and I speak from experience on both sides of the equation. Can you?

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Report · Jun 13, 2017

Yes, i started paid for development back in 1994, when did you start?

Report · Jun 13, 2017

Assuming that you are referring to the development of web sites, you beat me by 5 years.

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Report · Jun 13, 2017

The point is Ben, it does not matter when someone started, what type of site they develop, or how they develop.

What does matter to me is that Dw supports W3C specs, the best possible way for every type of user. Yes, i will complain as it no longer supports developers such as me, but i will also complain because i think those users who wish a more visual means of development are not adaquatly supported.

We all want the same thing in the end, and that's that Dw offers the best possible development environment for everyone, that includes Dw winning back old users who have abandoned Dw, current users, small site developers and corporate developers, and everyone else in between. My impressions of Dw though in it's current form, is that it is ignoring everyone who is not in the 'current user' category, or ignorant of the requirements of those who do not wish to 'stay as they are' in their career development, and want to expand their knowledge of what is now possible.

I know many will say that i should list what is missing, file feature requests, etc, etc, but as someone who has had enough of doing all that in the past, with no results. I also know there is really no point even in writting this, as it will also be ignored.

If as you say, you have also developed for the corporate user, then you also know what is missing from Dw.

Report · Jun 13, 2017

Well, I was about to ignore the question because I thought it rather childish as though we are in some kind of race, sort of like mine is bigger than yours.

What does matter to me is your aversion to Dreamweaver, extensions for Dreamweaver and Bootstrap. These are exactly the tools that I have chosen to help me build a very successful business post my retirement from a previous life.

According to your own admissions, the facts are:

1. You do not use Dreamweaver, instead using the Microsoft product while trying other IDE's

2. You do not use extensions from DMXzone or WebAssist

3. You do not use Bootstrap because it is bloated, while your offsider continues to deploy images in excess of 400KB

This means that you are basing your opinions on assumptions while I have based my choices on personal experience.

In return for having made my choices, I am being labeled an ignorant (not knowledge ), lazy (inclination not to code for themselves) amateur (all quoted from above).

Ignorant

Yes, I readily admit to that, I am learning all the time even from my grandkids.

Lazy

If trying to find more efficient methods for better results means that I am lazy, then I have been guilty of this for nearly three quarters of a century.

Amateur

I am a person who engages in an activity for pleasure rather than for financial benefit or professional reasons which is the dictionary meaning of an amateur.

In other words, I wear the label with pride: ignorant, lazy amateur.

Oh, and to further satisfy your curiousity, prior to my first paid assignment for web development, I had been working with the markup language for intranet distributed documentation. I also worked with dBASE, developed bespoke programs using ABAP (SAP), coded logic controllers and created/developed diagnostic systems just to name some. Going back to the late seventies, I created my own database and spreadsheet on an Intel-8080 self-built Heath-kit micro system.

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Report · Jun 14, 2017

pziecina wrote
The point is Ben, it does not matter when someone started, what type of site they develop, or how they develop.
What does matter to me is that Dw supports W3C specs, the best possible way for every type of user. Yes, i will complain as it no longer supports developers such as me, but i will also complain because i think those users who wish a more visual means of development are not adaquatly supported.
We all want the same thing in the end, and that's that Dw offers the best possible development environment for everyone, that includes Dw winning back old users who have abandoned Dw, current users, small site developers and corporate developers, and everyone else in between. My impressions of Dw though in it's current form, is that it is ignoring everyone who is not in the 'current user' category, or ignorant of the requirements of those who do not wish to 'stay as they are' in their career development, and want to expand their knowledge of what is now possible.
I know many will say that i should list what is missing, file feature requests, etc, etc, but as someone who has had enough of doing all that in the past, with no results. I also know there is really no point even in writting this, as it will also be ignored.
If as you say, you have also developed for the corporate user, then you also know what is missing from Dw.

Its clear from the majority of questions asked in this forum the kind of person that uses DW. I cant even call them developers. I dont believe myself Adobe are even trying to cater for the professional market at this point in tme as they probably know they are very much the minority users of their product and would be hard to convince back given there are better products available for professionals which are light years ahead.

DW has a niche market and in that repect regardless of whether it conforms to or supports current W3C spec they are NOT interseted in that at all. They have a large 'amatuer/hobbyist and retirement' audience who don't care about such things and never will. As long as the sofware supports the inclusion of frameworks and extensions, neither of which they know how works, but gets something thrown together its acceptable.

Its the DIY market - If I can do it myself, regardless of how poor the results its good because I've done it without needing to incur professional assistance which would set me back a sizable amount of money. Extension makers tap into that audience because everyones bottom line is they want to make money. Even the best extension developers don't use DW, apart from the necessity to test their extensions, that says it all - they think its a poor solution at a professional level.

Report · Jun 13, 2017

pziecina wrote
Yes, i started paid for development back in 1994, when did you start?

I only started six months back but hey with the help of all those frameworks and wonderful extensions I'm already a pro, don't need to learn much else. Muse is my next thing to tackle as well as 'timelines' and gifs for all those important animation effects. Once I have those sorted I should be up there with the very best.

Report · Jun 13, 2017

No comment,

Report · Jun 13, 2017

osgood_ wrote
pziecina wrote
Yes, i started paid for development back in 1994, when did you start?
I only started six months back but hey with the help of all those frameworks and wonderful extensions I'm already a pro, don't need to learn much else. Muse is my next thing to tackle as well as 'timelines' and gifs for all those important animation effects. Once I have those sorted I should be up there with the very best.

In your usual fashion you are not basing your comments on facts. I must admit, that I enjoyed the reply to a childish question.

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Report · Jun 13, 2017

You have got me going now. Have a look at client side validation Adding Client-side Validation To Your Forms - YouTube and server side validation Adding Server-side Validation to your Forms - YouTube and adding spam protection Protecting Your Forms From Spam with App Connect reCAPTCHA - YouTube or checking to see if a user is already in the database Check if a Record Already Exists in Your Database - YouTube

And so the list goes on. The produced code has been tried and tested.

No, I am not affiliated with DMXzone and my only 'privilege' is that I get to test the extensions before I purchase them.

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Report · Jun 13, 2017

BenPleysier wrote
You have got me going now. Have a look at client side validation Adding Client-side Validation To Your Forms - YouTube and server side validation Adding Server-side Validation to your Forms - YouTube and adding spam protection Protecting Your Forms From Spam with App Connect reCAPTCHA - YouTube or checking to see if a user is already in the database Check if a Record Already Exists in Your Database - YouTube

Most of those can be done in a matter of second writting you own code. Checking to see if a user exists in a database, you're having a laugh. Protecting your forms from spam, ok if you need to use an elaborate extension to do that then that's what you obviously need to use.

Since all of the above I do on a regular basis I just put then in a few code snippets, no more or less time involved than using an extension but less costly and you get to know exactly what the code is doing just incase you want to add the finese.

Report · Jun 13, 2017

BenPleysier wrote
No, I am not affiliated with DMXzone and my only 'privilege' is that I get to test the extensions before I purchase them.

No affiliation with DMXzone (who ever they are) and yet you get to test the extensions before they are released or you choose to purchase them when no-one else does. I would say there is a more than a reciprical connection/arrangement going on there.

Report · Jun 13, 2017

Just the mere fact that I deliver quality feedback unlike some whingers.

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Report · Jun 15, 2017

BenPleysier wrote
As a side note to others reading this, using the excellent Dreamweaver extensions from DMXzone, I have managed to cut my development time to 25%. I have been testing their latest extension due on Wednesday that allows me to add an HTML editor to any text-area with one click.
You have got me going now. Have a look at client side validation Adding Client-side Validation To Your Forms - YouTube and server side validation Adding Server-side Validation to your Forms - YouTube and adding spam protection Protecting Your Forms From Spam with App Connect reCAPTCHA - YouTube or checking to see if a user is already in the database Check if a Record Already Exists in Your Database - YouTube
And so the list goes on. The produced code has been tried and tested.
No, I am not affiliated with DMXzone and my only 'privilege' is that I get to test the extensions before I purchase them.

That's not web development, pal. That's configuring extensions you buy to do work that you're either unwilling or unable to do yourself. My guess is the latter.

Report · Jun 15, 2017

Assuming that you have tried the extensions and are speaking from experience, my opinion is that you should be given full marks for refusing to use them.

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Report · Jun 16, 2017

Firstly, anyone who wants to use extensions, fine. Go ahead. You have my blessing. Secondly, I have never tried any of the Dreamweaver extensions. Lastly, I probably should not wander into this 982nd version a long worn out debate. . .but here goes.

If you plan to go to Vietnam, you can spend a month learning a little basic Vietnamese, or you can buy a little paperback book of Vietnamese phrases and read it on the flight over. But the person with the phrase book is just making sounds out of their mouth without any understanding of the syntax or vocabulary. The person who learns a little bit of the language can actually have a conversation while the person with the phrase book is hunting through the book to find the translation for "where is the toilet?"

People come to this forum all the time in a state of crisis because they have no ability to make the slightest change to the code the extension creates. It might as well be Vietnamese.

Ben, you have argued that using extensions speeds up your work, but I can assure you that I can write PHP/SQL code faster than you can work through an extension to achieve the same result. I took a look at the Youtube video you linked to for checking to see if a record already exists in a database. All that requires is a query like "SELECT email FROM users WHERE email=:email." Then you write an if clause to handle the result.

If you want to use extensions, fine, but you will never be able to do this. . .

$query ="SELECT

X.invoice_set,

debit_amount,

credit_amount,

X.invoice_date,

X.payment_type,

B.date1 AS accom_date,

C.product_name AS course_title,

first_name,

last_name,

spiritual_name,

email,

phone,

address_1,

address_2,

city,

state,

country,

zip

FROM(

SELECT invoice_set, DATE_FORMAT(CONVERT_TZ(invoice_datetime,'UTC','$timezone'),'%Y-%m-%d') AS invoice_date,

student_id, payment_type,

SUM(CASE WHEN credit_debit = 'debit' THEN amount END) AS debit_amount,

SUM(CASE WHEN credit_debit = 'credit' THEN amount END) AS credit_amount

FROM invoice

WHERE client_id='".CLIENT_ID."' AND commit_invoice='1'

GROUP BY invoice_set

)X

JOIN invoice AS B

ON X.invoice_set = B.invoice_set AND

B.product_type='LODGING' AND $rangeset

LEFT JOIN invoice AS C

ON X.invoice_set = C.invoice_set AND

C.product_type='COURSE'

JOIN students on X.student_id = students.student_id AND

COALESCE(debit_amount,0) > COALESCE(credit_amount,0)

GROUP BY X.invoice_set

ORDER BY last_name, first_name";

Report · Jun 16, 2017

I wouldn't mind giving it a go if I had the time.

Maybe this will give you an idea of the sort of work that I do. This is a site that is ready for the owner to insert the data, the inputs to date is an example for him to work on.

To give you an idea of the code that is produced, the following allows me to create linked drop-downs.

<?php

Linked files deleted for security

$app = new \lib\App();

$app->define(<<<'JSON'

{

"meta": {

"options": {},

"$_GET": [

{

"type": "text",

"name": "makeid"

},

{

"type": "text",

"name": "modelid"

},

{

"type": "text",

"name": "seriesid"

}

]

},

"exec": {

"steps": [

"Connections/connection",

{

"name": "qryMakes",

"module": "dbconnector",

"action": "select",

"options": {

"connection": "connection",

"sql": {

"type": "select",

"table": "makes",

"columns": [

{

"table": "makes",

"column": "*"

}

],

"wheres": [],

"orders": [],

"joins": []

}

},

"output": true,

"meta": [

{

"name": "makeID",

"type": "number"

},

{

"name": "make",

"type": "text"

}

],

"outputType": "array"

},

{

"name": "qrySeriesFiltered",

"module": "dbconnector",

"action": "select",

"options": {

"connection": "connection",

"sql": {

"type": "select",

"table": "series",

"columns": [

{

"table": "series",

"column": "*"

}

],

"wheres": [

{

"table": "series",

"column": "makeID",

"bool": "and",

"operator": "=",

"value": "{{$_GET.makeid}}",

"type": "number",

"condition": "{{qryMakes}}"

}

],

"orders": [],

"joins": []

}

},

"output": true,

"meta": [

{

"name": "seriesID",

"type": "number"

},

{

"name": "makeID",

"type": "number"

},

{

"name": "series",

"type": "text"

},

{

"name": "yearFrom",

"type": "number"

},

{

"name": "yearTo",

"type": "number"

}

],

"outputType": "array"

},

{

"name": "qryModelsFiltered",

"module": "dbconnector",

"action": "select",

"options": {

"connection": "connection",

"sql": {

"type": "select",

"table": "models",

"columns": [

{

"table": "models",

"column": "*"

}

],

"wheres": [

{

"table": "models",

"column": "seriesID",

"bool": "and",

"operator": "=",

"value": "{{$_GET.seriesid}}",

"type": "number",

"condition": "{{qryMakes}}"

}

],

"orders": [],

"joins": []

}

},

"output": true,

"meta": [

{

"name": "modelID",

"type": "number"

},

{

"name": "makeID",

"type": "number"

},

{

"name": "seriesID",

"type": "number"

},

{

"name": "model",

"type": "text"

},

{

"name": "body",

"type": "text"

},

{

"name": "doors",

"type": "number"

},

{

"name": "chassisNo",

"type": "number"

},

{

"name": "engineNo",

"type": "number"

},

{

"name": "kW",

"type": "number"

},

{

"name": "fuel",

"type": "text"

},

{

"name": "fuelSystem",

"type": "text"

},

{

"name": "cylinders",

"type": "text"

},

{

"name": "engineSize",

"type": "number"

},

{

"name": "production",

"type": "number"

},

{

"name": "yearFrom",

"type": "number"

},

{

"name": "yearTo",

"type": "number"

}

],

"outputType": "array"

}

]

}

JSON

);

?>

As you can see, it queries the different tables and performs the joins.

Edit: Sorry wrong code. The code above allows me to edit the models.

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Report · Jun 16, 2017

Forgot to say, double click the full description for the various styling options.

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Report · Jun 16, 2017

Thank you for the example, Ben. That is pretty slick. It is, however, what I would expect one could do with the DB extensions.

The query I provided generates an aging detail. (For those who don't know, an aging detail is a financial report that shows what customers have payments in arrears, how much they owe and how late they are. It's a query no DB extension could come up with.

I am sure that the DB extensions could handle 90% of the queries I use, but I can also write those queries lickety-split. The problem is when you need something the extension can't handle. For most extension users, that becomes an insurmountable obstacle.

Ben, you just can't argue with the fact that an application based on extensions is always going to be confined to the limits of the extension, and the coder who uses them is never going to develop a high level of coding skill.

Personally, I really like working through difficult coding problems that make my brain sweat. That can't happen for someone who is writing code by making selections on menus and in forms.

Your example reminds of a crazy Fortran coder I knew who had three 1939 Mercedes Limousines, what the Nazi brass drove around in. Profoundly impractical machines.

Report · Jun 16, 2017

Rob, thank you for your feedback, much appreciated.

I have had to do (some very small) some hand coding where the extensions did not meet my requirements.

In general though, the extensions speed up my work and I love the guy/gal that wrote

That's not web development, pal. That's configuring extensions you buy to do work that you're either unwilling or unable to do yourself. My guess is the latter.

Even his/her guess is wrong.

Regarding the Mercs, I am looking for an Adenauer that needs restoration, preferably with RHD.

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Report · Jun 16, 2017

BenPleysier wrote
I love the guy/gal that wrote
That's not web development, pal. That's configuring extensions you buy to do work that you're either unwilling or unable to do yourself. My guess is the latter.
Even his/her guess is wrong.

As an experienced web developer, not extension configurer unlike yourself - meaning no web development involved - just clicking menu items to configure how you want something to function on your website, the statement seems accurate to me. Web development being the key word here: you aren't displaying any of that with your examples. If anything it explains how little you know of actual web development. Not a guess. It's a fact. Perhaps Muse is more suited for you.

Report · Jun 16, 2017

Thanks for the pointer, much appreciated. Muse, here I come.

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Flexbox - run-around