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michellef25541473
New Participant
August 15, 2017
Answered

[Locked] Bootstrap css, what is the purpose?

  • August 15, 2017
  • 6 replies
  • 4922 views

hi

i am a first time novice of dreamweaver 2017.

I'm using a boostrap starter template and i want to make changes to the bootstrap.css which is read only.  is there a reason why it is read only given the html wasn't?  should i simply mark it as writable and begin to 'attempt' to modify it.  or should i just delete the whole thing and start from scratch; which seems appealing now...

is there simpler way to begin to create a css with simple changes? or perhaps the better question is what shall i do begin a create a css style sheet from scratch as all the tutorials i have found seem to have 'prepared on earlier' and instead show how to modify.

thanks

This topic has been closed for replies.
Correct answer Jon Fritz

The simple reason for locking the botstrap.css is: if you don't know what you're doing, you can easily break it.

Rather than making changes to that colossal css file, you are supposed to attach a second, override css file to your pages just after the Bootstrap css in the <head> section. That way, you can re-write any css selector you like, without messing up the original.

1. Create a new blank .css file and save it into your site "styles.css" usually works fine for the name.

2. On your page, right click just after the bootstrap.css file's <link> tag and choose "Attach Stylesheet"

3. Browse to the new "styles.css" file

4. Make sure Add As is set to "Link"

5. hit OK

From there on out, use the new css file as your "Source" in the CSS Designer, if you use that window

6 replies

pziecina
Brainiac
August 16, 2017

Just so everyone knows who is locking this thread, i am.

This discussion has now gone so far of topic that it has nothing to do with the original question.

Paula.

BenPleysier
Community Expert
August 15, 2017

Sorry Michelle, I live in another time zone and only get to see the majority of posts when I arise from a good night's sleep. What I am about to say will make the whole thing even more confusing, so please skip the next part and go straight to my last line.

Anyone been to the Bootstrap site lately? The problems with Dreamweaver have already started! For anyone starting out now (Dreamweaver and the included Bootstrap) are going to find themselves in all sorts of strife. Even @Teodor, DMXZone, are now behind the eight ball.

Edit: It looks like the Bootstrap link does not work. Try http://getbootstrap.com/

I have created a few sites using Bootstrap 4; in my latest site I used Grid with Flexbox as a backup for the browsers that have not caught up / will not be updated. Still needs some tidying up, but seems to have the correct outcome.

For those that are interested, the following is what my SCSS looks like

/*

General Layout

*/

html {

height: 100%;

font-family: Arial;

font-weight: 400;

overflow-y: scroll;

@include media-breakpoint-up(xl) {

background: url(../img/left-column.png) left top no-repeat fixed, url(../img/right-column.png) right top no-repeat fixed, url(../img/html-bg.png) center repeat;

background-size: 39vh;

}

}

body {

height: 100%;

display: flex;

flex-direction: column;

}

.container {

max-width: 576px;

@include media-breakpoint-up(md) {

max-width: 1200px;

}

}

.content {

background-color: white;

flex: 1 0 auto;

}

/*

Home Page Layout

*/

#home.content {

display: flex;

flex-flow: row wrap;

display: grid;

grid-template-columns: 60% 40%;

grid-template-areas:

"main-area main-area"

"right-sidebar left-sidebar";

>.col-main {

flex: 1 100%;

grid-area: main-area;

}

>.col-left {

flex: 2 0;

grid-area: left-sidebar;

}

>.col-right {

flex: 3 0;

grid-area: right-sidebar;

}

@include media-breakpoint-up(sm) {

grid-template-columns: 20% 50% 30%;

grid-template-areas:

"left-sidebar main-area right-sidebar";

>.col-main {

order: 2;

flex: 5 0;

}

>.col-left {

order: 1;

flex: 2 0;

}

>.col-right {

order: 3;

flex: 3 0;

}

}

}

/*

Contact Page Layout

*/

#contact.content {

display: flex;

flex-flow: row wrap;

display: grid;

grid-template-columns: 100%;

grid-template-areas:

"main-area"

"right-sidebar";

>.col-main {

flex: 1 100%;

grid-area: main-area;

}

>.col-right {

flex: 1 100%;

grid-area: right-sidebar;

}

@include media-breakpoint-up(sm) {

grid-template-columns: 50% 50%;

grid-template-areas:

"main-area right-sidebar";

>.col-main {

flex: 1 0;

}

>.col-right {

flex: 1 0;

}

}

}

Just two breakpoints

  • mobile
  • the rest

In this period of transition/confusion, Al's Harmony Vibrations​ may be the best option for new-comers to web design/development. That way the newbie can learn HTML/CSS while creating the site.

Wappler is the DMXzone-made Dreamweaver replacement and includes the best of their powerful extensions, as well as much more!
Teodor K
Participating Frequently
August 16, 2017

Even @Teodor, DMXZone, are now behind the eight ball.

Hey BenPleysier

No, actually we are not! Why? You will find out really soon

---DMXzone | Wappler
Teodor K
Participating Frequently
August 16, 2017

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Teodor+K  wrote

The task above takes exactly a minute and 45 seconds clicking around all of these panels and menus and you have the page running and styled.

So no - obviously it is not time saving

That's funny 'Deleting a datbase record' according to the video takes a least 5mins (that's assuming you know what you are doing)....

Deleting Database Records - YouTube


Well, it is 5 mins in the video, because of the explanations going along. In real life it is no more than 2 mins and that is with setting up the database connection and the query... in most cases it would take like 40seconds to set it up, as you have already connected to the db and created the queries, which you reuse later.

---DMXzone | Wappler
pziecina
Brainiac
August 15, 2017

To get part way back to the OP's question.

What is missing in Dw is alternative starter pages, such as ones using flexbox, and now css grid layouts that anyone can use, and decide which they think is the best to use for their planned layout(s).

The problem with providing those is that even if Dw did provide them, it is missing features to make working with them easier for users.

Brainiac
August 15, 2017

pziecina  wrote

The problem with providing those is that even if Dw did provide them, it is missing features to make working with them easier for users.

Yeah, better start with hard stuff first like wrapping snippets initially, as has been mentioned, then move on to the simpler stuff.

ALsp
Brainiac
August 15, 2017

I asked you not to take offense and I'm sure you didn't right what you did maliciously. However, although I did not quote your complete statement, I did cite it. This is what you wrote, which I took literally:

-------------------------------------

Whether you use 3rd party extensions or open source code like Bootstrap & jQuery is entirely your choice.  Frankly,  I don't see much difference in concept except that 3rd party extensions are sold & maintained by a small group of people.  Whereas jQuery & Bootstrap are open source projects maintained by a huge community of users worldwide.  Suffice it to say, jQuery & Bootstrap are not going to suddenly vanish anytime soon because they are in widespread use all over the world.

-------------------------------------

I don't think I misunderstood.

Nancy OShea
Community Expert
August 15, 2017

I 2nd the advice to learn HTML & CSS before you begin projects.  It's a necessary skill. 

To get the most out of Bootstrap, learn the 12-box grid system and Bootstrap's built-in CSS classes.  The 12-box grid allows you to make custom responsive layouts for xs, sm, md, & lg devices. The built-in classes allow you to leverage Bootstrap without custom CSS coding.  Used correctly, the Bootstrap framework can save you a lot of time.

If you want another color scheme, Bootswatch has free themes for Bootstrap online.  https://bootswatch.com/

To use these themes, simply replace the link to your current Bootstrap CSS with the Bootswatch theme of choice from Max CDN.  Bootswatch · BootstrapCDN by MaxCDN

Cerulean Example: 

<link rel="stylesheet" href="https://maxcdn.bootstrapcdn.com/bootswatch/3.3.7/cerulean/bootstrap.min.css">

Advanced users often generate a custom Bootstrap build, tailored to their specifications with LESS variables & mixins.  You can download the complied CSS or use the  LESS pre-processor files in DW.  It's your choice.

https://getbootstrap.com/docs/3.3/customize/

You have lots of options for working with Bootstrap in DW.   But take some time to get familiar with it.

Nancy O'Shea— Product User, Community Expert & Moderator
ALsp
Brainiac
August 15, 2017

One thing to keep in mind is that Bootstrap is not Adobe code. It is a massive, free CSS framework. While I respect Nancy as a person, her advice is not going to do you any good unless you make the very personal decision to buy into Bootstrap. And if you do, please understand that the next version of Dreamweaver, or the one after that, could see Adobe removing Bootstrap for the next fashionable CSS framework it can acquire for free, leaving you and anyone else tied to Dreamweaver and Bootstrap left holding the bag, as happened with Spry, and later with Boilerplate. Be very, very careful.

If you do nothing else, learn CSS so you can write your own layouts in less than 10% of the bloat used by Bootstrap or use a more modern method, such as Flex or CSS Grids. These are easy things to learn, so easy, I really wonder why Adobe feels compelled to use other people's code instead of writing its own.

Massive CSS libraries make sense in massive web sites managed by dozens of designers and developers, but make absolutely no sense in the typical Dreamweaver site.

I hope you see the light. I really do.

pziecina
Brainiac
August 15, 2017

ALsp  wrote

If you do nothing else, learn CSS so you can write your own layouts in less than 10% of the bloat used by Bootstrap or use a more modern method, such as Flex or CSS Grids. These are easy things to learn, so easy, I really wonder why Adobe feels compelled to use other people's code instead of writing its own.

Dw does that because most of the people advising them have no idea how flexbox and grids actually works, and they refuse to even consider an alternative until it is too late, just think back to fluid grids. The next version of bootstrap uses flexbox, so most if not everything in the css of the current version for layouts will be obsolete.

ALsp  wrote

Massive CSS libraries make sense in massive web sites managed by dozens of designers and developers, but make absolutely no sense in the typical Dreamweaver site.

Massive css libraries are now being dropped by most large web sites, in favour of a modular approach. All that previously used such libraries found that maintanence was almost impossible, and a complete re-write became a mammoth task. Even pre/post-processors are slowly being dropped by large web sites, as they often made the tasks more difficult.

ALsp
Brainiac
August 15, 2017

It's not a simple question. If you are a web designer then you should probably learn the fundamentals of coding and CSS before deciding whether or not to use Bootstrap. Adobe has historically grabbed free code (which Bootstrap is) and stuffed into Dreamweaver to add perceived value. Dreamweaver's developers, unfortunately, are likely not very good web designers themselves or they'd probably have built their own page-building solutions. That said, Bootstrap CSS is massive as the library must attempt to be all things to all people. For that reason, the core Bootstrap CSS should not be altered. To customize, you must make what I call exception CSS rules, contained in an additional CSS file. These rules would basically be additive -- added as additional class names to elements already assigned a Bootstrap class. If you don't understand this, Bootstrap is very likely going to lead to some very difficult times for you, in which case...

You can look for easier to edit CSS templates online or you can invest in Dreamweaver page-building extensions designed around automated interfaces that install inside Dreamweaver, and that provide free customer support via actual developers, rather than offshore employees who read from scripts.

So you probably have some research to do and decisions to make.

Some of the people who will be responding to you do not necessarily use Dreamweaver, nor do they believe in investing in add-on tools. But if you want to explore that avenue, you would look at these pages, along with its attendant examples and documentation:

Harmony Vibrations

michellef25541473
New Participant
August 15, 2017

Thanks too ALsp for giving the background to the bootstrap.css.  whilst I feel reasonably comfortable with making edits, I'm not so confident with having to understand all that is in the bootstrap.css and create exceptions to those.  Or needing to start from scratch.  i think i will try to get a template online. do you recommend any sites please?

Brainiac
August 15, 2017

michellef25541473  wrote

Thanks too ALsp for giving the background to the bootstrap.css.  whilst I feel reasonably comfortable with making edits, I'm not so confident with having to understand all that is in the bootstrap.css and create exceptions to those.  Or needing to start from scratch.  i think i will try to get a template online. do you recommend any sites please?

Whilst getting a template may seem slightly less daunting, if you want to make any serious changes you are still going to have to paw over someone elses visions of writing html/css/naming conventions.

I dont really know what your long-term goals are. If this a one off project and you are unlikey to to be involved in web-development as a profession then you just have to use what's available 'out-of-the-box' and that will probably be a framework/template/plugin/extension. If on the other hand you view this as a long-term pursuit you need to learn to code, only then can you make subjective decisions about a workflow.

Dreamweaver is failing as a serious web-development tool because it includes poor options as default and those that gravitate towards it start off on the wrong foot and generally continue that way.

Good luck...

Jon Fritz
Jon FritzCorrect answer
Community Expert
August 15, 2017

The simple reason for locking the botstrap.css is: if you don't know what you're doing, you can easily break it.

Rather than making changes to that colossal css file, you are supposed to attach a second, override css file to your pages just after the Bootstrap css in the <head> section. That way, you can re-write any css selector you like, without messing up the original.

1. Create a new blank .css file and save it into your site "styles.css" usually works fine for the name.

2. On your page, right click just after the bootstrap.css file's <link> tag and choose "Attach Stylesheet"

3. Browse to the new "styles.css" file

4. Make sure Add As is set to "Link"

5. hit OK

From there on out, use the new css file as your "Source" in the CSS Designer, if you use that window

michellef25541473
New Participant
August 15, 2017

Ah, great! this is a really helpful way forward. - the idea of changing 6000 lines of coding is daunting.  I will try it this way