No more Muse, what about DW?

[wefollow]

I really don't know what do to after using Muse.

I started using the Dreamweaver with StudioMx  but few months ago started using Muse.

Muse......March 26, 2018 we will release the final feature improvement release ...

Adobe doesn't even recommend Dreamweaver.

Should I come back to Dw?

Really need you advice.

thank you for reading,

James

[B i r n o u]

I completly agree with those definition, I know that you add etc... but I will add in an explicit way, WAS Web Accessibility Specialist, because much of Designers/Developper profiles often forget to open on that way...

[tiff_meek]

rayek.elfin  wrote

The term "web(site) designer" is too vague, too generic a term, and too easy to misinterpret. I avoid using it altogether.

"Front-end coder", "UX designer" "Information Architect", "Content Strategist/Designer", "Full-stack web Developer", "Front-end Designer", "Usability Expert", etc. Much less confusing.

"Web Designer" belongs back in the nineties.

As much as this sounds ideal, it simply doesn't work from a marketing perspective. 'Web designers' is a term we can use to advertise our services to the general public (potential clients). If we used more specific terms we would not get work because nobody would know who to look for. It is a catch-all phrase that is necessary. In the same way that we go to a car mechanic, even though there are probably brake specialists, and electrical specialists and engine specialists. Also, there are web designers who sometimes simply create the overall 'look' of a site for some clients, and all the functionality is implemented by the developer, while on other occasions they might be the one to work out all the functionality and provide it as 'mock ups' for the developer to work from. It will all depend on the budget and the inclination of the client, as well as the skillset of the designer, as well as the skillset of the developer. No two jobs are ever quite the same it would seem.

[B i r n o u]

yes... that makes sense, but here we are inside the garage... and we can use those specificities, to better understand who speaks to who... we are not in a marketing branch..; we try to find the expression of the ideal tool... so the tool has to answer as to a ure designer, than to a content strategist, or a specialist in accessibility, than to an animator designer...

[tiff_meek]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

yes... that makes sense, but here we are inside the garage... and we can use those specificities, to better understand who speaks to who... we are not in a marketing branch..; we try to find the expression of the ideal tool... so the tool has to answer as to a ure designer, than to a content strategist, or a specialist in accessibility, than to an animator designer...

OK, I get your point. So in that case, what would you call a person who sits with the client to determine what they want, then translates that into visual concepts that show not only the look and feel of the site (images, fonts, design elements, alignment etc) but also the basic functionality of the site (drop downs, video, carousels, sliders, accordions etc), who then writes up a job brief to hand to the developer which explains the site map, specifications, functionality and scope of the project, and who then oversees the build, keeping the developer on track, checking their work, and making sure that the end project is in accordance with the client's requirements?

[B i r n o u]

what you describe is a project manager...

[tiff_meek]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

what you describe is a project manager...

Not a project manager. A project manager does not design the look and feel of a website.

[B i r n o u]

well.. if the person has to handle everything (from dealing with client, ux/ui design, to delivery online...) in france we call that "un mouon à cinq pattes", I don't think that there is any localisation in english... it is more or less 'someone, that has to be able to do everything'... a kind of rock-star....

well not really because in your case the person does'nt code, nor work on content strategy, nor sensible to accessibility, .. so you're right it's difficult to find out the real term... perhaps a Muse's user (without any offense please)

[Nancy OShea]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

in france we call that "un mouon à cinq pattes", I don't think that there is any localisation in english...

In English, "a jack of all trades,"  or  "a person who wears many hats." 

Nancy

[B i r n o u]

thanks... I like the one "a jack of all trades... "....

[BenPleysier]

'un bricoleur'

[B i r n o u]

in fact "un mouton à cinq pattes" is not a pejorative expression. On the contrary, it is a qualifier that indicates that the person has exceptional abilities, rare ...
translated word by word that says "a five-legged sheep" have you ever seen a five-legged sheep in a flock?

[ALsp]

have you ever seen a five-legged sheep in a flock?

No. But now that you've educated me, I will look at flocks much closer in the future. I'm concerned that these are five-legged sheep, when six legs would certainly be more balanced, but then again, I'm pretty sure my cousin's Peugeot had five wheels.

[B i r n o u]

it is not in the flock that is the fifth but in the trunk

[ALsp]

That explains the weird noise coming from his trunk, and the constant aroma wet wool.

[B i r n o u]

from time to time, tell your cousin to open the chest and give some grass ... especially if the smell of wet is strong

[ALsp]

Oh, my cousin is very much into the grass .

[B i r n o u]

I knew... I personnaly own three Peugeot...

[pziecina]

tiff_meek  wrote

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u   wrote

what you describe is a project manager...

Not a project manager. A project manager does not design the look and feel of a website.

It all depends on the project manager, and whilst many do not actually design the look and feel they do get involved in the design and feel, (often having the final say).

The problem with titles starts when the person holding the title is cast in a fixed role, which happens in lots of cases I am sure. There is also the problem of everyone thinking that coders no nothing about design and designers knowing nothing about code.

When I was asked to take over a project back just before the beginning of the millennium, (it became a long running project) one of the first things I realised was that there was a very large gap in understanding between what designers said, and I understood.

My answer to that was to put myself through a graphic design diploma course, and work part time for a graphic design company. A little extreem maybe, but only then did I see the flaws in the thinking of both, and realise that often we talked about the same thing but used different words, (the term, lost in translation, describes the problem).

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

tiff_meek   wrote

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u    wrote

what you describe is a project manager...

Not a project manager. A project manager does not design the look and feel of a website.

It all depends on the project manager, and whilst many do not actually design the look and feel they do get involved in the design and feel, (often having the final say).

Similarly an Art Director in the graphics/advertising world or a Film Director in moving pictures, both who can't necessarily design or act to a high standard have important parts to play in the creation of the final product.

[W_J_T]

pziecina  wrote

My answer to that was to put myself through a graphic design diploma course, and work part time for a graphic design company. A little extreem maybe, but only then did I see the flaws in the thinking of both, and realise that often we talked about the same thing but used different words, (the term, lost in translation, describes the problem).

Admirable & Applaudable.

Impressive. I have always believed to be better at anything you need to understand the process forwards and backwards. If more people would work harder to understand the other facets which come before and beyond them, then not only could they do their own jobs better but the overall process and industry would be in a better place. That goes for web, print, you name it. But sadly most people remain compartmentalized in their approach and thinking, which stagnates the understanding and process around them.

[pziecina]

W_J_T  wrote

Impressive. I have always believed to be better at anything you need to understand the process forwards and backwards. If more people would work harder to understand the other facets which come before and beyond them, then not only could they do their own jobs better but the overall process and industry would be in a better place. That goes for web, print, you name it. But sadly most people remain compartmentalized in their approach and thinking, which stagnates the understanding and process around them.

I always wonder when I hear people say, "I cannot code, my brain does not think that way", or "I cannot design, I don't understand it", are saying those things simply because they have been told them, or don't want to understand them.

I also suspect that those saying that, work in small teams and not for large companies. In large companies one is no longer thought of as a member of personnel, but as a human resource. The difference between the two is that a member of the personnel is a person, a human resource is a commodity. As a commodity employers are looking for 'added value', and if someone does not have any 'added value' they are the first to go, because they cannot add anything beyond the basic requirements.

[W_J_T]

pziecina  wrote

I always wonder when I hear people say, "I cannot code, my brain does not think that way", or "I cannot design, I don't understand it", are saying those things simply because they have been told them, or don't want to understand them.

I can't, I don't, I won't -- are generally attributes of laziness or simply not caring beyond ones vantage point. I would rather have someone whom knows less but desires to learn much and has a "can / will do" attitude. Harder to find in todays lethargic unengaged society.

pziecina  wrote

I also suspect that those saying that, work in small teams and not for large companies. In large companies one is no longer thought of as a member of personnel, but as a human resource. The difference between the two is that a member of the personnel is a person, a human resource is a commodity. As a commodity employers are looking for 'added value', and if someone does not have any 'added value' they are the first to go, because they cannot add anything beyond the basic requirements.

True that.

[tiff_meek]

W_J_T  wrote

pziecina   wrote

I always wonder when I hear people say, "I cannot code, my brain does not think that way", or "I cannot design, I don't understand it", are saying those things simply because they have been told them, or don't want to understand them.

I can't, I don't, I won't -- are generally attributes of laziness or simply not caring beyond ones vantage point. I would rather have someone whom knows less but desires to learn much and has a "can / will do" attitude. Harder to find in todays lethargic unengaged society.

pziecina   wrote

I also suspect that those saying that, work in small teams and not for large companies. In large companies one is no longer thought of as a member of personnel, but as a human resource. The difference between the two is that a member of the personnel is a person, a human resource is a commodity. As a commodity employers are looking for 'added value', and if someone does not have any 'added value' they are the first to go, because they cannot add anything beyond the basic requirements.

True that.

The left brain and right brain operate in two very different ways. We each have a propensity for left brain thinking or right brain thinking. Creatives or tech-heads. Some people lean heavily one way or the other. Some can slide between the two. Either way these are all legitimate 'ways of being' and should be respected. I have met many people who cannot fathom the design space. And I have met many people who struggle with highly technical stuff. It isn't because they are lazy or don't care. It's simply because they are that kind of person.

[rayek.elfin]

tiff_meek  wrote

The left brain and right brain operate in two very different ways. We each have a propensity for left brain thinking or right brain thinking. Creatives or tech-heads. Some people lean heavily one way or the other. Some can slide between the two. Either way these are all legitimate 'ways of being' and should be respected. I have met many people who cannot fathom the design space. And I have met many people who struggle with highly technical stuff. It isn't because they are lazy or don't care. It's simply because they are that kind of person.

The left versus right brain is a myth, and was debunked years ago. Sorry.

Of course, some people have an affinity with one thing, while others have affinity with something else. But this has nothing to do with being "right brained" or "left brained". It's a bogus notion.

I have taught hundreds of graphic design students html and css. Everyone is able to learn these - it is not even considered "programming". And with the latest flexbox and CSS Grid options, it's become SO MUCH EASIER for anyone to learn how to create functional web layouts without the need for obscure work-arounds.

I had hundreds of students enter my classes dreading the notion that they had to learn html and css - and most found it rather liberating and fun. Some never learn to like html and css, but EVERYONE in my classes learned how to create web layouts from scratch.

Besides, with a tool such as Pinegrow no-one even needs to learn basic html and css at a level where they need to be able to create a simple web layout. They only need to understand the visual properties in a visual interface, and drag and drop layout components - while keeping an eye out on the code structure, which Pinegrow keeps track of most of the time.

Yes, many design-oriented people don't like coding. Many developers aren't very designer-savvy. But both groups can easily learn the basics. And it improves the communication between the two groups by a mile.

[W_J_T]

tiff_meek  wrote

The left brain and right brain operate in two very different ways. We each have a propensity for left brain thinking or right brain thinking. Creatives or tech-heads. Some people lean heavily one way or the other. Some can slide between the two. Either way these are all legitimate 'ways of being' and should be respected. I have met many people who cannot fathom the design space. And I have met many people who struggle with highly technical stuff. It isn't because they are lazy or don't care. It's simply because they are that kind of person.

Sorry, I do not agree with the whole concept of different mindsets separating the two and creating "an unsurmountable barrier". If people want to they can indeed learn. People may be better in this or that, but they can learn as they desire and are willing to put forth the effort towards.

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As a side note: Why are you writing your thesis in the Dreamweaver forum? Why not compile all these thoughts and much more and post them in the Muse forum since you desire Adobe to fulfill your needs of a visual based web design tool. Do you want or expect Dreamweaver to facilitate these desires?