No more Muse, what about DW?

[wefollow]

I really don't know what do to after using Muse.

I started using the Dreamweaver with StudioMx  but few months ago started using Muse.

Muse......March 26, 2018 we will release the final feature improvement release ...

Adobe doesn't even recommend Dreamweaver.

Should I come back to Dw?

Really need you advice.

thank you for reading,

James

[W_J_T]

^ you comment is now locked in.

[B i r n o u]

I just googling on the subject... instead of reinventing the hot wtaer and find out a nice (old) artiles... Job Titles in the Web Industry | CSS-Tricks

[B i r n o u]

<aware>I'm not arguing... just try to find solution</aware>

Why Designer use Photoshop for designing web site?... I always asked myself and students (very massive think tank, alert and lively)... why do we use a pixels limited document to design something that will be resizable to wishes, which should have a rather liquid behavior, having to meet adaptive qualities ... and that more will be seen in this state of 'static poster' only in the interface of photoshop?

more in the mass of interfaces that I had to visualize in Photoshop ... none took into account the text with its semantics, its work on the typo, highlighting and real situation ...

besides nothing of this work can be exploited as such (as Magritte said, this is not a pipe) ... everything will have to be re-created in an HTML page ... (you will tell me there a extract ...) yes ... let's be nice ... arf arf ....

I remember a little over 10 years ago ... the teachers' fight over the size of the document ... 960 for some ... 1024 for the others ... and the students who said ... uh ... and if I want to make a round interface ... I am based on the diameter or the radius? ....

when I asked to create on a document without any limit ...  then there is no noise ... silence ... attention a madman to speak

[tiff_meek]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

<aware>I'm not arguing... just try to find solution</aware>

Why Designer use Photoshop for designing web site?... I always asked myself and students (very massive think tank, alert and lively)... why do we use a pixels limited document to design something that will be resizable to wishes, which should have a rather liquid behavior, having to meet adaptive qualities ... and that more will be seen in this state of 'static poster' only in the interface of photoshop?

more in the mass of interfaces that I had to visualize in Photoshop ... none took into account the text with its semantics, its work on the typo, highlighting and real situation ...

besides nothing of this work can be exploited as such (as Magritte said, this is not a pipe) ... everything will have to be re-created in an HTML page ... (you will tell me there a extract ...) yes ... let's be nice ... arf arf ....

I remember a little over 10 years ago ... the teachers' fight over the size of the document ... 960 for some ... 1024 for the others ... and the students who said ... uh ... and if I want to make a round interface ... I am based on the diameter or the radius? ....

when I asked to create on a document without any limit ...  then there is no noise ... silence ... attention a madman to speak

I agree that it sounds counter-intuitive, however, this is the way it is for many at present. Many clients cannot visualise what they want, and are not willing to pay for a build just to see a concept. So it becomes necessary to show the client in a flat format while discussing the functionality. If the client is happy with the concept the job proceeds. This is part of the reason Muse was so very useful in the real world. Concepts could be done in Muse and if the client was happy the job was pretty much done! Instead of having to conceptualise and then start all over again to build. Once again, this is why it is imperative that designers have tools like Muse. Cheers Tiff

[B i r n o u]

have you ever heard of rapid online prototyping... with tools like sketch https://www.sketchapp.com/ and invision Digital Product Design, Workflow & Collaboration | InVision  for just presenting them.. there are much more out there....

[tiff_meek]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

have you ever heard of rapid online prototyping... with tools like sketch https://www.sketchapp.com/ and invision Digital Product Design, Workflow & Collaboration | InVision  for just presenting them.. there are much more out there....

It's like Christmas! Am downloading Sketch now to take a look!

[B i r n o u]

cool that it helped you... so the next step is invisionapp... you'll see from ther you can have a network set and share comment in an interface, download file, makes modification and so on... everyone from the team is there, including clients, experts users and testers...

as we already had some trouble with terms...

experts users are persons that are expert in the field and subject that the web site is about

power users are persons that are experts in technical field (architecture, content strategy, UX/UI design, designers, coding...)

[W_J_T]

tiff_meek  wrote

downloading Sketch now to take a look

Honest question with no ill intent, but how have you been in the industry for your stated 30 years, profusely advocating the design side and never heard of Sketch ?

[tiff_meek]

W_J_T  wrote

tiff_meek   wrote

downloading Sketch now to take a look

Honest question with no ill intent, but how have you been in the industry for your stated 30 years, profusely advocating the design side and never heard of Sketch ?

No idea. Have never heard of it. Have never worked with anyone who uses it. The purpose of your question is beyond me, but there's the answer.

[osgood_]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

have you ever heard of rapid online prototyping... with tools like sketch https://www.sketchapp.com/ and invision Digital Product Design, Workflow & Collaboration | InVision  for just presenting them.. there are much more out there....

I think there's at least one thing we agree on, if not much else. I stopped using programs like Photoshop/Illustraor and Fireworks to mock up designs many years ago, prefering now to mock up layouts directly using html/css code. Photoshop/Illustrator/Fireworks were great in a world where static design was considered the normal workflow and image based websites were standard but today a vastly different approach is needed.

[pziecina]

osgood_  wrote

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u   wrote

have you ever heard of rapid online prototyping... with tools like sketch https://www.sketchapp.com/ and invision Digital Product Design, Workflow & Collaboration | InVision  for just presenting them.. there are much more out there....

I think there's at least one thing we agree on, if not much else. I stopped using programs like Photoshop/Illustraor and Fireworks to mock up designs many years ago, prefering now to mock up layouts directly using html/css code. Photoshop/Illustrator/Fireworks were great in a world where static design was considered the normal workflow and image based websites were standard but today a vastly different approach is needed.

I'm going to make a generalisation now, so please no one take offence.

When I work with many designers, they are often looking for the software they use to keep up with requirements for the web, and only rarely do they think ahead, or think about innovating. Developers are often unwilling to think about doing anything that may take them out of their comfort zone, even if they know something is possible they will come up with every excuse possible not to use it untill someone has shown them how.

Anyone who has ever been in a pre-release for anything, will know that if a program is seen as for designers, whatever a developer says is in most cases 'shouted down' by designers, (and vice-versa).

classic examples are photoshop/fireworks, CC Animate and Dreamweaver. With Ps it still has not grasped that images are not just a one size fits all for the web, and that the web is not a poster. With Animate they choose to ignore css animations, even though in a large number of cases it is the better solution. With Dreamweaver they have gone the 'we have no idea anymore' route, in that they try to please both, and ignore the requirements of both.

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

I'm going to make a generalisation now, so please no one take offence.

When I work with many designers, they are often looking for the software they use to keep up with requirements for the web, and only rarely do they think ahead, or think about innovating. Developers are often unwilling to think about doing anything that may take them out of their comfort zone, even if they know something is possible they will come up with every excuse possible not to use it untill someone has shown them how.

Anyone who has ever been in a pre-release for anything, will know that if a program is seen as for designers, whatever a developer says is in most cases 'shouted down' by designers, (and vice-versa).

classic examples are photoshop/fireworks, CC Animate and Dreamweaver. With Ps it still has not grasped that images are not just a one size fits all for the web, and that the web is not a poster. With Animate they choose to ignore css animations, even though in a large number of cases it is the better solution. With Dreamweaver they have gone the 'we have no idea anymore' route, in that they try to please both, and ignore the requirements of both.

It will be interesting in the future to see how all this IS going to resolve itself or not as the case may be. I don't think anything is going to seriously change much in the time I have left in the business. I just have to keep doing what I am doing, but trying to do it better. Someone whose been in it for only a few years will likely see big changes and faster changes, with more confusing options just like the changes my generation had to overcome and deal with, albeit it I think at a slower pace, with less options.

I think what is 'killing' it now is the wide variety of different frameworks, languages and libararies which one can use to ultimately end up with the same results. Developers very often ask 'what they should be learning' and regularly disagree on strategies. Is it just a trend which will become obsolete in a few years. It was much easily before this 'revolution' as there was a limited workflow which allowed developers to focus more and have to learn at a less fast pace.

[pziecina]

osgood_  wrote

I think what is 'killing' it now is the wide variety of different frameworks, languages and libararies which one can use to ultimately end up with the same results. Developers very often ask 'what they should be learning' and regularly disagree on strategies. Is it just a trend which will become obsolete in a few years. It was much easily before this 'revolution' as there was a limited workflow which allowed developers to focus more and have to learn at a less fast pace.

Any framework and library, will sooner or later become obsolete. Those using them will always see them as the best thing ever thought of, which is fine. Where both fall down is in over reliance by the person(s) using them, and in the possibility that even though they may have been a good idea and innovative initially, they end up being used to create cookie cutter sites, that look and feel the same as all the other cookie cutter sites

I don't think workflows were more limited in the past, just that no one talked about them. Most workflows have been around since before the web, and most people use parts or all of them without thinking about them anyway.

[tiff_meek]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

have you ever heard of rapid online prototyping... with tools like sketch https://www.sketchapp.com/ and invision Digital Product Design, Workflow & Collaboration | InVision  for just presenting them.. there are much more out there....

I took a look at the Sketch app. The thing is, I could prototype in Muse AND do the finished product at the same time. It was just as fast and just as easy. But still, glad to have seen it and I might even use it for some projects in future. Thanks for pointing me in that direction. Cheers Tiff

[B i r n o u]

yes but homesite was THE code editor to preserve and they didn't ... and Freehand was a real master piece... at that time it was behond Ai....

[W_J_T]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

and Freehand was a real master piece... at that time it was beyond Ai

In various ways and features it still is, sadly.

[rayek.elfin]

Wow, the forum police is starting to delete posts and threads like crazy on the Muse forum now. I started a thread about alternatives, and it never got approved, and was silently removed. W_J_T's messages are removed as well.

[W_J_T]

Yeah same, silently removed. My post was a compassionate message for those users. I am astonished, thats pathetic.

[rayek.elfin]

I actually read your post a moment before it was deleted. Not sure why they did that. Perhaps Adobe doesn't like to be reminded of past bad behaviour?

[W_J_T]

They just restored my missing thread and removed my post you saw, so that works. Still rather peculiar however.

[Preran]

I will check with people moderating posts as to the reasons why some of the discussions are not getting approved, but let me assure you that there is no large conspiracy to prevent people from voicing their opinion. Chances are that there could have been human errors in moderation that have nothing to do with the content of your posts. Feel free to repost and let me know if the same thing happens.

Thanks,

Preran

[Preran]

You would be amused to know that my earlier post went into the moderation queue. I was told that my content would be posted after moderation. I was hoping that as a moderator myself, I would be excused from that.

[Nancy OShea]

No one is exempt from moderation .

[ALsp]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

No one is exempt from moderation .

It's like my grandfather told me...

"All things in moderation."

As far as Adobe is concerned, Grandpa was certainly prescient.

[ALsp]

And, of course, this is my first post of mine today that has been moderated.