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Now that Muse is defunct, what is the future of Dreamweaver?

Forum|Forum|7 years ago
March 27, 2018
8 replies
12514 views

Will Dreamweaver still remain in Adobe's arsenal, or will it bite the dust in the very near future? I used Muse to create sites for several clients, and it looks like I'll be forced to migrate these sites into Dreamweaver for any future changes and maintenance. If Dreamweaver is on the chopping block, though, it would sure be nice to know now so that I can plan accordingly.

This topic has been closed for replies.

Correct answer Preran

Like I promised, I checked with the senior management about the future of Dreamweaver, and their answer was that they see no reason to stop developing the product. Dreamweaver will continue to exist, period.

I understand that no amount of reassurance will suffice, but I do want to put other Dreamweaver users visiting this post at ease.

I am marking my answer as correct only because I want this question to be addressed upfront for visitors that will not care to read the rest of the discussion. If any of you feel strongly against that, let me know, and I will take care of unmarking it.

Thanks,

Preran

S

steward39

Participant

Dreamweaver, like Flash (defunct) and Fireworks (available but ended life cycle years ago) were not original Adobe products. These three came from Adobe's purchase of Macromedia. Two are dead and one's on life support. On some of these threads, one poster keeps mentioning a web design product that runs 30 euros/month as an alternative. Muse was coming along, then support was inexplicably dropped. I think facts have to be faced here: all former Macromedia products, including Dreamweaver, are effectively defunct. I'm having a problem now that was supposedly solved in 2018, yet it keeps recurring. Muse was Adobe's foray into modern web design, and then they dropped development on it.

From my point of view as someone with 35 years in IT and who coded my first web pages in vi, Adobe is totally getting out of the web design environment - but is unsure if people will keep buying CC without both Photoshop (which rolls an update about every three weeks lately) and Dreamweaver. People might start going a la carte.

I suggest people look at the AppSumo site for new, up-and-coming web editors which are comparable but superior to Muse. AppSumo gets nice low one-time startup lifetime prices for new software, and I have two web editors from there (which are much more expensive now from the companies directly.) Adobe appears to be moving to graphics only... and with the rather inexpensive software for graphics out there, it may be a bad bet on their part.

Nancy OShea

Community Expert

My take on this is based on my perspective as a web developer since the 90's when the Internet was a new & exciting landscape and small mom & pop shops could manage a website almost as well as the big guys. Things were much, much simpler then. But that all changed.

Flash forward to 2023, the Internet is a complicated quagmire of competing platforms, APIs, libraries and frameworks, so many In fact that one can scarcely name them all. And the web itself has morphed into a complex and sometimes hostile environment due in no small part to malicious hackers & sophisticated bots that threaten data & personal information, every second of every day. These threats are real, it's no joke. And what amateurs DON'T KNOW about security puts everyone at risk -- the site owner, site visitors, paying customers and the web designer who blindly messes around in shark-infested waters.

The old days of static, desktop built websites are long gone. They've been replaced by platform-driven Progressive Web Applications (PWAs) and online Content Management Systems (CMSs).

Muse was never extensible and thus couldn't keep up with the changing web. OTOH, Dreamweaver is fundamentally usable as a coding tool but it's not receiving new features or technology improvements. For those who wish to keep using it, DW is being minimally maintained for the foreseeable future.

Adobe lost interest in consumer web software. Their main focus is on Digital Assets Management (AEM), 2D and 3D design (AI, PS, Substance), digital document services (Acrobat). That and the struggle to keep apps secure & compatible with new devices keeps their plate plenty full.

If you want an alternative to Muse or Dreamweaver, look at WordPress with Block Themes. Unlike Classic PHP Themes, Block Themes are the future of web-based design & development. You can read more below.

Nancy O'Shea— Product User & Community Expert

Peter_Nitras

Participating Frequently

As a designer first and foremost with sufficient coding experience. I do think the only reason how Dreamweaver has a future is that they become a visual page builder tool for static websites (most preferably with some database linking for good measures).

Tools such as nice page or Webflow (both outstanding visual page builders) are dominating the market and Dreamweaver has become the tool that I simply do not bother to install. As mentioned I do have a technical background and know my way around html, js, css and more. But the joy of having visual page builders is just too good to be left alone.

At least this is how I feel about things.

O

osgood_

Legend

At least this is how I feel about things.

I still dont know of any program that can do exactly what lm thinking without having to tweak the code. For sure there are plenty of low end solutions which offer modules of coding that will get a slideshow, modal, navigation, form etc into your page and if youre happy with those then all is good.

Websites and apps are becoming more and more sophisticted these days, clients more demanding............those that need a real web developer, those that dont will use one of these low end solutions themselves as they require very little skill........theres no money left in low end work anymore, automation took that away.

The game for those that now want a career in development has stepped up a bit to more complex app building and bespoke website building, not just building with blocks of default code, which anyone can do using the likes of Wix, Webflow, Square Space etc. The only financial winners are the companies supplying these low end solutions as they appeal to millions of amatuer users, a developer, if they use such workflows needs to sell as cheap as chips to compete for the low end client.

Automation, of course, will have and has had an impact on professional developers just as the digital camera had an impact for professional photographers, theres less work at the lower end of the market, so they need to up their game and offer something these automated solutions cant do out of the box. Its all about keeping one step ahead of the AI revolution anyone that doesnt is likely to find themselves redundant. The best way of keeping ahead in web development is learning to code.

J

JoeYarb825

Participant

I too have developed several sites in muse. QUESTION: how are masters from muse used in Dreamweaver?

BenPleysier

Community Expert

They are not, Dreamweaver is a code editor for HTML, CSS, JavaScript and server side languages. Muse produces its own code, that when deployed, is compiled into HTML, CSS and JS.

Wappler is the DMXzone-made Dreamweaver replacement and includes the best of their powerful extensions, as well as much more!

pziecina

Legend

The problem with everything everyone is saying is that it does not answer the original question, "what is the future for Dreamweaver"?

I doubt if the Muse team even knew that Muse was to be discontinued, untll a few weeks before the announcement. So even if the Dreamweaver managment was to say that there are no plans to drop Dreamweaver, how much could we rely on that being true.

We, (in this forum) have been saying for months, if not years, that Dw user are abandoning Dw for other code editors/ide's, (though we do not really know, and only basing our assumptions on what Dw offers). If we are thinking Dw is finished, and the Muse users had no idea it was to be discontinued, it will take someone much higher up in the Adobe managment chain than the Dw team is, to restore any confidence in Dw's future.

Preran

Correct answer

Community Manager

Like I promised, I checked with the senior management about the future of Dreamweaver, and their answer was that they see no reason to stop developing the product. Dreamweaver will continue to exist, period.

I understand that no amount of reassurance will suffice, but I do want to put other Dreamweaver users visiting this post at ease.

I am marking my answer as correct only because I want this question to be addressed upfront for visitors that will not care to read the rest of the discussion. If any of you feel strongly against that, let me know, and I will take care of unmarking it.

Thanks,

Preran

T

tiff_meek

Known Participant

Thank you, at least you show you appreciate the problems.

With the web and creation of web sites in particular, the first problem that must be solved is one of terminology, as I think everyone will agree that html and css are not easy to understand but must be understood.

Lets take layouts by way of example -

html5 has a semantic mark-up structure for the layout, in which every individual part of that layout has a specific meaning. The trouble is that it is structured and not very intuitive unless one learns that structure. I think we both can agree that designer or developer, we both sketch a page to a rough idea of how we want it to look.

In dtp the structure uses simple terms and the flow would be something like, heading, sub-heading, body text, image, additional body text, footnote, erata.

But in html5 one must not only decide if that translates to an element order of -

h1, h3, p, img, p, ul/li, p. But also decide what the flow and the relationship to each other those elements have.

So we could end up with an html structure of -

main, section, article, h1, h3, p, article, h3, img, footer, p, ul/li, aside, p.

Getting from a dtp structure to an html structure alone, and one that is understood by both groups is necessary just to define the layout, and not how the layout will flow on the actual web page, (thats for css).

To get the dtp structure to an html structure, the first thing we require is some form of graphical interface in which the user defines what is to be included, the relationship each individual part has to each other, how each part should flow, and the hierarchy of each individual part, (you can have multiple h1's on a page if the html semantics used allow).

Getting Dw let alone Adobe to think about such an idea though, i gave up on years ago.

pziecina wrote
Thank you, at least you show you appreciate the problems.
With the web and creation of web sites in particular, the first problem that must be solved is one of terminology, as I think everyone will agree that html and css are not easy to understand but must be understood.
Lets take layouts by way of example -
html5 has a semantic mark-up structure for the layout, in which every individual part of that layout has a specific meaning. The trouble is that it is structured and not very intuitive unless one learns that structure. I think we both can agree that designer or developer, we both sketch a page to a rough idea of how we want it to look.
In dtp the structure uses simple terms and the flow would be something like, heading, sub-heading, body text, image, additional body text, footnote, erata.
But in html5 one must not only decide if that translates to an element order of -
h1, h3, p, img, p, ul/li, p. But also decide what the flow and the relationship to each other those elements have.
So we could end up with an html structure of -
main, section, article, h1, h3, p, article, h3, img, footer, p, ul/li, aside, p.
Getting from a dtp structure to an html structure alone, and one that is understood by both groups is necessary just to define the layout, and not how the layout will flow on the actual web page, (thats for css).
To get the dtp structure to an html structure, the first thing we require is some form of graphical interface in which the user defines what is to be included, the relationship each individual part has to each other, how each part should flow, and the hierarchy of each individual part, (you can have multiple h1's on a page if the html semantics used allow).
Getting Dw let alone Adobe to think about such an idea though, i gave up on years ago.

I think the advent of the 'way' that sites are coded is part of the problem. The 'flow' is a constraint. Perhaps there needs to be a rethink. Perhaps instead of working from a top to bottom, left to right 'flow' hierarchy we need to have options to radiate out from a fixed point that could be of our own choosing. Perhaps we need to be able to define the relationship between elements ie. this point on this container is this far from that point on that container, so that a page can be constructed in what to a viewer might seem a random way, but still remains mathematically structured from the software's point of view. In many ways this is already possible of course, but I'm talking about a more over-arching re-think of the 'typical' way that sites are structured. Perhaps ultimately it means that the code becomes really complex, and that tools need to be developed to assist coders (imagine that!). Ultimately if we code according to the common denominator (the average IQ of a coder) we will constrain ourselves, whereas if we use the power of the computer to write code that contains further complexity we have the capacity to advance ourselves, innovate and create in ways that are only constrained by the power of the designers imagination. Cheers

Nancy OShea

Community Expert

This is not the first time Adobe have retired products and it certainly won't be the last. Think back to PageMill, GoLive, Fireworks, Director, Encore, Contribute, LiveCycle, Edge, Course Builder, e-Learning suite.... all gone now. As industries & technologies change, so too must the software we use. In 2020, Flash, Muse and Business Catalyst will reach EOL.

Dreamweaver remains an excellent tool for site management and code editing. If you can write your own code, you will never be a slave to your software. But non-coders will always have trouble when the software they rely on stops being developed.

Nancy O'Shea— Product User & Community Expert

Preran

Community Manager

I haven't heard of any such plan for Dreamweaver. I will check with the product management team to see if they have anything else to add.

Thanks,

Preran

pziecina

Legend

I would not advise trying to use Dreamweaver to maintain or update a Muse site.

A better option would be to continue to use Muse until you can convert the sites to normal html, css, javascript. Muse will continue to be available as part of your CC subscription, it will just never be developed further. It may also be an idea to at least look at the Adobe Spark pre-release builds, as that appears to be Adobes recommended option, though with Adobes record of support for anything web, and given what they have done with Muse, I personally would be very cautious about using Spark.

The main problem with trying to use Dreamweaver, is that the Muse code is almost unreadable, especially if you have used any plug-ins/widgets. For Muse users who do wish to try going in the 'convert to Dreameaver' direction, I would ask if the Adobe forums could add a separate forum section just for those people. With the code base of Muse being so bad to read, especially when plug-ins/widgets have been used, having one place to go may help ex Muse users in the conversion to a code based solution.

P

pedigree1

Participating Frequently

@pziecina

For me, your answer misses the point - I appreciate you weren't addressing me so no offence intended. I have Muse sites and am now looking for an alternative. My question is, is it worth me investing my time and money in learning to use DW or is that likely to go the same way as Muse? I fully appreciate that Muse code cannot be read by DW (or anything else for that matter) but I am going to have to rebuild from scratch at some point in the future anyway, so why wouldn't I use DW? I appreciate that the learning for DW is in a different league from Muse but I may be prepared to do that if I had confidence that DW was going to be around for what, another 10 years?

Can anyone give me that confidence?

It may be that I am asking the impossible...

Regards.

pziecina

Legend

Providing you learn modern coding requirements, and don't rely on any Dw features except coding help, then even if they do at some point drop Dreamweaver it will not matter, as code is code and can be used with any code editor or ide.

B i r n o u

Legend

if anyone has the answer, it has not yet emerged ... and this question has already been asked, long before Muse was officially put on the shelf, actually since CS6 we started to whisper (without much belief) and since CC2015 we are in great expectation as to the future of DW.

During the last broadcast of roadmap, nothing was convincing. we add novelties ... without knowing why? ... and resilient bugs, cumbersome execution, the real non-stability, make all of us, who produce sites to make a living ... have either a panoply of spare, or we are under CS6 ... maximum 2015 ... but 2017, 2018 and certainly 2019 are totaly unusable ...

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