OT: Don't teach kids to code?

[Nancy OShea]

Good article.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/i-m-a-developer-i-won-t-teach-my-kids-to-code-and-neither-should-...

[osgood_]

What's the point in teaching a kid to code, by the time it grows up that code would be superceeded by something else. Schools are normally teaching outdated techniques, books are oudated the minute they are published, boot-camps are there simply to make money. Its not like teaching a kid life skills, which generally remain consistant, web-development changes almost every year. Whilst I agree with the sentiment of the article, (to be good at anything you have to have an indepth understanding of what it is you are doing and how it works) its stupid to relate kids and coding. Let kids be kids and enjoy themselves instead of trying to cram their brains with boring trash, there will be plenty of time for that when they reach the right age. Most kids dont benefit from pushy parents, most suffer long term damage.

[BenPleysier]

The above diagram shows a simple algorithm.

Algorithms are all around us - put a coin in a machine and can of Coke is dispensed - the fridge gets too warm and the compressor is turned on. There are millions of examples. Each of these algorithms go through a set of instructions (read: code).These instructions can be mechanical, electrical, hydraulical, digital, atomical, mental etc. or a combination

To say that kids should not be taught to code is an oxymoron, their lives depend on algorythms and the sooner that they are confronted with coding, the sooner will they become independant. Conversely, become zombies.

[osgood_]

I doubt kids will understand what an Algorithm is, less likely to be able to spell it or even pronounce it correctly, even if you tried to teach them, so proves my point. They want Bugs Bunny and Pepper Pig until they are at an age when they can think and make decisions for themseleves regarding their future. Any parent or grandparent forcing a kid to suck-up adult shite is an oxymoron. Next youre be suggesting they consume alcohol  and puff on a cigarette just because dumb adults do. Kids are brighter than you think, they dont need mentally unstable adults in their lives.

[Jon Fritz]

I disagree, with pretty much the entire article.

It's a bit like saying "don't teach your kid the alphabet, because novels are about more than the alphabet"

Teaching children to code is about geting them to think logically to create complex actions within a framework of basic rules. It's not about learning HTML or Learning Javascript any more than learning to type is about writing throw-away articles on the internet.

"Only kids can learn to embrace curiosity"?

Where's that animated .gif of Trump saying "Wrong".

[Nancy OShea]

Thank you all for your thoughtful remarks.  This forum hasn't had much of that lately.

Ben's reply reminded me of early school days when I signed up for a data processing class expecting an introduction to computer programming.  I reasoned that knowing how to work with COBOL or Fortran would somehow make me a better thinker.  But that didn't happen.  Instead of coding, we learned how to process data in flow-chart fashion just like Ben's diagram.  I hated the class & frequently made excuses to skip it, not realizing then that it would shape how I solve problems today. 

Programming is merely language.  Language without thought is just gibberish.

I can introduce students to code and syntax and show them how to make a cool widget.  But if they don't understand the procedural process of getting from point A to point B and point C, it's no different than teaching them card tricks -- fun for 5 minutes but quickly forgotten.

[osgood_]

You signed up or your parents did? There is a difference. If you signed up then you must have been at an age where you were making decisions for yourself. I certainly didn't learn anything like that or even have the opportunity to do so in school. I remember we were  taught how to specifically work out tangents, for some reason, which is beyond me as I've never had a reason to work out a tangent since. It would have been more beneficial to learn everyday skills such as how to change a plug or open a bank account, basic maths, english etc, than javascript, the everyday important things we all should know. Some young adults these days find it difficult to add up 2+2, without the dependency of a calculator, which anyone that can calculate maths mentally, knows equals 5. Notice how I slipped in the word 'dependency' - some similarities to what is happening generally, this facination in having everything done for us instead of understanding and finding how to do it ourselves? That's the only thing I agree with in the article, which I still fail to understand why code is specifically associated with a childs ability to progress, not every kid wants to code, they might want to be a chef. All in all its a pretty irrelevant article.

[pziecina]

Sorry I'm a little late to this discussion.

A lot of what is said in the article, is o/k, but teaching anyone, (kids or adults) to think logically, (hi mr spock) is I think missing the point. Simply because it forces them to think in a 'if this, then that' way of thinking. Which is also wrong, as it completely misses out on the importance of the 'what if' way of thinking.

Yes I know that the so called 'creative types' will also say 'what about creativity', but most 'creative types' are also thinking in a logical fashion, simply because they also think of how something should be done, and how it should look. One has only to look at web design, to realise that it is also being done in a logical fashion, with a 'this goes there, and this should look so' thinking.

If anyone is taught how to code, then it is important to also teach 'how to think differently', because without doing so inovation, and progress stops, and we end up with the 'it is done so, and no other way' mind-set.

[pziecina]

Just to add to my last post, and why teaching anyone to think in a logical fashion is wrong.

A 'bumble bee' aerodynamically cannot fly, but the 'bumble bee' does not know that, so it continues to fly. By teaching anyone that something/anything is done 'just so', and it cannot work any other way, forces them to think it is so.

Question -If the 'bumble bee' knew it could not fly, because it cannot do so, aerodynamically. Would the 'bumble bee', then be unable to fly?

[osgood_]

Question -If the 'bumble bee' knew it could not fly, because it cannot do so, aerodynamically. Would the 'bumble bee', then be unable to fly?

Probably and that means there will be less honey for me.

[osgood_]

If anyone is taught how to code, then it is important to also teach 'how to think differently', because without doing so inovation, and progress stops, and we end up with the 'it is done so, and no other way' mind-set.

I guess the idea of being the puppet rather than the puppet master appeals to a lot of people, either that or those that are less inquisitive are just not as advanced in their thought processes.

[BenPleysier]

https://youtu.be/vZbS4hYK0t8

[osgood_]

Using a toy robot as an incentive is the only reason they might be interested at that that age in coding and that is highly doubtful as writing code to operate a robot would be beyond their mental capability. Notice there were zero shots of kids actually doing any coding, rather fidding about with bits of metal and plastic, not exactly coding, just fiddling with mecano, which is what kids do. Its low level mental activity which kids should be encouraged to investigate as part of the process of moving to adulthood, whereas coding is stressful and high maintainance, not exactly what I would be forcing on kids of that age. But hey I'm not an expert but I know we are consistently informed there are more kids now suffering from depression and having suicida-l thoughts, just maybe its us mentally wounded adults expectations of them that have something to do with that.

[pziecina]

The video just proves my point Ben.

It advocates that children SHOULD be taught to think logicaly. Once a child is 'programmed' to think that way, individuality and the ability to think beyond what is possible, has gone 'out of the window'.

I agree that teaching anyone to do something that will cause harm, (to them or others) is stupid, but to teach that logic is the best and only way to think if they wish to 'get a job', is why we see so many 'robots' in society being produced by educational institutions these days, (the 'robot' pun was intended).