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Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?

Explorer ,
Oct 08, 2014

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After upgrading to the newest version of DW CC 2014, I noticed that the Design View is disabled in Fluid Grid pages. You can only use the Live View to edit those pages. The Design/Live button displays on non-fluid pages.

I'm wondering if there is a work-around to allow Design View editing on fluid pages. It is a major hassle to try to edit some things in the Live View. It would nice to have a choice.

@Ron

Ron, thanks for your idea.  I just tried this to my fluid grid css file, and it worked!  The odd thing (at least in my mind) is that the code (shown below) is commented out.  So, even though my web pages ignore this commented out code, Dreamweaver does not... it uses it to control how the Dreamweaver program operates. Well, I guess that this can happen.  This code acts like a "directive" to the Dreamweaver program.

One noticeable change is that in Live view I no longer see the grey strips showing the fluid grid columns, but I can live with this.

This is my novice way of looking at the situation.  But now I am happy.

Here's my exact code (that I deleted) from my css file.  Maybe others can try this and see if it fixes the problem.

/*

  Dreamweaver Fluid Grid Properties

  ----------------------------------

  dw-num-cols-mobile: 4;

  dw-num-cols-tablet: 8;

  dw-num-cols-desktop: 12;

  dw-gutter-percentage: 15;

  Inspiration from "Responsive Web Design" by Ethan Marcotte

  http://www.alistapart.com/articles/responsive-web-design

  and Golden Grid System by Joni Korpi

  http://goldengridsystem.com/

*/

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Is there any way to display the Design View in fluid grid pages?

Explorer ,
Oct 08, 2014

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After upgrading to the newest version of DW CC 2014, I noticed that the Design View is disabled in Fluid Grid pages. You can only use the Live View to edit those pages. The Design/Live button displays on non-fluid pages.

I'm wondering if there is a work-around to allow Design View editing on fluid pages. It is a major hassle to try to edit some things in the Live View. It would nice to have a choice.

@Ron

Ron, thanks for your idea.  I just tried this to my fluid grid css file, and it worked!  The odd thing (at least in my mind) is that the code (shown below) is commented out.  So, even though my web pages ignore this commented out code, Dreamweaver does not... it uses it to control how the Dreamweaver program operates. Well, I guess that this can happen.  This code acts like a "directive" to the Dreamweaver program.

One noticeable change is that in Live view I no longer see the grey strips showing the fluid grid columns, but I can live with this.

This is my novice way of looking at the situation.  But now I am happy.

Here's my exact code (that I deleted) from my css file.  Maybe others can try this and see if it fixes the problem.

/*

  Dreamweaver Fluid Grid Properties

  ----------------------------------

  dw-num-cols-mobile: 4;

  dw-num-cols-tablet: 8;

  dw-num-cols-desktop: 12;

  dw-gutter-percentage: 15;

  Inspiration from "Responsive Web Design" by Ethan Marcotte

  http://www.alistapart.com/articles/responsive-web-design

  and Golden Grid System by Joni Korpi

  http://goldengridsystem.com/

*/

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 08, 2014

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Evidently, there's no option to change this.  Apparently this was an intentional move to promote more people to use Live View for editing.  See the New Features below.

helpx.adobe.com/dreamweaver/using/whats-new.html



Nancy O.

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web.com

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Explorer ,
Oct 08, 2014

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Thanks for the feedback.

If it was intentional a s way to promote some new feature, it was a pretty lame thing to do. No one wants features forced on them.

One good example of problems with Live View editing is that unordered lists must be hand coded.

Thus far, my work-around is to either use CS6 or to use a second non-fluid style sheet to allow major editing.

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Oct 08, 2014

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Hello Ron,

We understand that it is always difficult to work with new features, but once you get used to it we assure you that you'd never want to go back.

The older Fluid Grid framework used to rely on an outdated browser engine. This time we have replaced it with the Chromium Embedded Framework.

What it means for you is that, you'll get the same rendering in Live View as you'd expect in Chrome or Safari. So, you'll be spending less time switching between the browser & DW.

If you can list down the workflows you are trying while editing in Live View & the issues you are facing in doing so, it will help us understand what is amiss & suggest alternative workflows to do the same.

Let us know !

-Subhadeep

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Explorer ,
Oct 09, 2014

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The complaint is not about the features of Live View but the fact that Design View is not available for Fluid Grid pages. There is no logical reason to disable Design View for Fluid pages.

If I do not want to work in LIve View, I should not have to be forced to use it. That is a poor business practice.

As far as problems with editing in Live View go, a few are::

  • The pages take forever to load
  • You cannot readily add items to lists without going into the Code View

I am sure there are others.

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Explorer ,
Oct 09, 2014

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Well, this is really a short-sighted new feature.

One cannot run spell-check, and many other features in Live view.  It is also nearly impossible to copy webpage content, and paste it into another webpage.

Please explain how to do this in Live view (when using fluid grids)!

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Explorer ,
Oct 09, 2014

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This gets even more interesting.  I just discovered that if you create a new webpage based upon a fluid grid template, that initially, one can switch between design and live view.  Also, spell check is available.  But if one saves and closes this file, then reopens it, you cannot switch to design view.  Hmmm, so even Adobe didn't get this totally correct about not being able to have Design View with fluid grids.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 09, 2014

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This is expected behavior since DW doesn't know what an Untitled document is until you actually save and name it.   The same is true for other files like DW Templates and PHP pages.

Nancy O.

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web.com

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Explorer ,
Oct 09, 2014

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So, the expected "user" behavior is that they are allowed to spell check a webpage only at the time when a brand new webpage is being created, but not when editing it?  Really!

I think this problem can be easily fixed by allowing "Design" mode to be provided at all times, right?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 09, 2014

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I'm not disagreeing with you about spell check.  I think Live View needs more work before it can be used as a viable replacement for Design View.  My advice is to post this under New Ideas in this forum and let people vote.  You'll find it under Actions > Create an Idea.

Nancy O.

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web.com

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Explorer ,
Oct 09, 2014

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Okay, I will post under actions.

So, you are saying that "live view needs more work before it can be used as a viable replacement for Design View", yet, Live View has replaced Design View in DW2014.1!  Design View is gone (if you are using fluid grid webpages).

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 09, 2014

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I don't use FluidGrids.  It's far easier for me to code my own CSS Media queries.  Or sometimes I use a responsive framework like Bootstrap.

Foundation Zurb

http://foundation.zurb.com/templates.php

Skeleton Boilerplate

http://www.getskeleton.com/

Initializr (HTML5 Boilerplate, Responsive or Bootstrap)

http://www.initializr.com/

DMX Zone's Bootstrap FREE extension for DW

http://www.dmxzone.com/go/21759/dmxzone-bootstrap/

Project Seven's Page Packs (Commercial CSS Templates)

http://www.projectseven.com/products/templates/index.htm

Nancy O.

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web.com

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Community Beginner ,
Oct 09, 2014

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I cannot understand the logic here. There must be many previously useful options that are now unavailable such as right-clicking for a mini-menu to select opening the linked page (or whatever) from an a href. Since the element is 'live' so just 'selecting' it by mouse/pointer initiates whatever action it is coded for. Are we supposed to right-click the link/image, hunt out the code, select the link, make a right-click and then select 'Open'?

As the start (Welcome) page eg offers the opportunity to create a Fluid-Grid layout not everyone at Dreamweaver feels it is an out-dated concept presumably.

Is there no way the Design view can be bought back?

Also, restricting the rendering to Chromium (Chrome/Safari) constraints ain't helping me design for my clients as all of them use IE or Firefox, even those with Macs.

Is there no way the Design view can be bought back?

If not, how do I roll-back my copy to CC2014?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 09, 2014

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Beezoid wrote:

If not, how do I roll-back my copy to CC2014?

Open the Creative Cloud Desktop App

Click the Apps tab

Scroll down and click Filters & Versions

Choose Previous Versions

The DW Install icon should now have an arrow on it allowing you to get older versions

I haven't updated to 2014.1 yet, so I'm not 100% sure it will be there, but it should be, if it exists.

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Community Beginner ,
Oct 09, 2014

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Thanks Jon for this Tip.

Im going back to cc2014...  Waisted half a day with a client because the issues with the latest version and removing design view. And keep getting "Renderer/Plugin process crashed". I will wait for 2014.2 if I was you!

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Community Beginner ,
Oct 09, 2014

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Thanx for the tip Jon. Unfortunately 2014.0 is not there, only cs6 (v12) or cc (v13) which I had kept on disk so all I can do is uninstall 2014 and hope for the best (or maybe 2014.2). At least I have 2014.0 on the Windows machine and thankfully not yet "upgraded".

'tis all a pity since many of the changes did look like upsides. And of course a whole day's lost work.

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Explorer ,
Oct 09, 2014

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Does anyone from Adobe know about these complaints and problems, or are we just complaining among ourselves? How can we reach those with influence in the company? Perhaps Adobe is just too big to care.

I'm still looking for a work-around besides editing in CS6. I've used a parallel CSS file to disable the fluid grid while I'm working on my files. Perhaps using a non-Adobe version of responsive web pages would be worth looking into.

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Explorer ,
Oct 09, 2014

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Possible work-around:

I deleted:

Dreamweaver Fluid Grid Properties
----------------------------------
dw-num-cols-mobile:4;
dw-num-cols-tablet:8;
dw-num-cols-desktop:12;
dw-gutter-percentage:25;

from my CSS file.. The Design/Live toggle now appears and works, as does Spell Check. Also, the page still seems responsive and fluid.

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Explorer ,
Oct 09, 2014

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I have already mentioned the lack of spell check, but there are many other features not available in "Live" view.

I run TimeMachine on my Mac, so I just went back about a week and moved Dreamweaver 2014 back onto my Mac, so I have both versions.  Seemed to work just fine.

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Contributor ,
Oct 11, 2014

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Easy fix !

go get bootstrap from DMXzone and don't use DW fluid grids. this extension is well worth the $$$$ and you won't have any of these dramas until of course Adobe decides there is something else in DW you don't need.

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Explorer ,
Oct 11, 2014

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I've tried contacting Adobe in the UK - which doesn't exist, they just shove you through to India...

These folks may be technically competent but it's clear English is not their first language and explanation takes a long time with far too much repetition at both ends. I've spent hours and shared my PC with them a few times and they keep doing the same thing... changing my preferences, creating a new fluid file and saying "Look, it works."

Then I close DW down, re-open it, re-open the file they've just created and say - , "Look, it doesn't"

They then say they need to research the matter and never ever do anything about it.

Am I the only one that thinks Adobe Support is bloody hopeless!!!!

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Explorer ,
Oct 11, 2014

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Have you actually tried using is? Try this?

1) Create a new Responsive Layout. We’ll call it demo.php, fluid.css and the usual accompanying DW files.

2) Enter demo.php and progress is normal. Everything works. You can choose to view both Live and Display and edit accordingly.

3) Close down DW.

4) Open DW and open demo.php

5) There is NO LONGER a Display View option and Live View does not EDIT. (at least it doesn't for me)

6) I can ONLY edit work in CODE view.

Thus, on brand new files, all is fine. The moment DW is closed and the files becomes “old” it can no longer be seen or edited properly.


How am I supposed to provide support to clients? How can I access a Responsive site I built last week when Live View will not edit and Display will not display?

I feel this is a programming error, not a purposeful act.

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Participant ,
Oct 12, 2014

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This isn't a new feature, this is removing a feature and limiting the usefulness of DW.

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Explorer ,
Oct 14, 2014

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I'm assuming we've all had this email from Subhadeep...

Hello,

Regarding the Dreamweaver Forum thread: https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1597550

Thank you for your feedback on using Live View in Dreamweaver. That gave us helpful pointers as to which workflows are not intuitive enough & what we could do about them in the future.

We would like to know more from you about your experience in using Live View. Let me know if you can join us over a remote conference.

Again I am forced to ask the question, WHY?

We're not consultants. Presumably Adobe hired those along with programmers, etc, when they designed their latest "this will do" version of DW.

Why do we need to tell you the faults? If you used the damn software, as we do day in day out, you'd KNOW the faults and presumably would not have inconvenience your customers with the BETA version package.

Or perhaps you really do need to hire consultants? As I can say hand on heart I lost money waiting for your support staff to contact me / return emails / find a fix / etc ALL of last week, I for one would be happy to submit an invoice for the services of consultation. Anyone else on the forum feel so inclined? It seems Adobe need help finding out what their software is supposed to do...

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Participant ,
Oct 14, 2014

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I got that email,

where having customer engagement is good. I just wonder myself how they can't figure out on their own what is wrong by this thread alone.

Either way... talk is cheap.. action is what matters.

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Explorer ,
Oct 14, 2014

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Ron Kurtus wrote:

Possible work-around:

I deleted:

Dreamweaver Fluid Grid Properties
----------------------------------
dw-num-cols-mobile: 4;
dw-num-cols-tablet: 8;
dw-num-cols-desktop: 12;
dw-gutter-percentage: 25;

from my CSS file.. The Design/Live toggle now appears and works, as does Spell Check. Also, the page still seems responsive and fluid.

Thanks Ron, but that render the fluid grids un-editable.  We just need Design View back.

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Explorer ,
Oct 14, 2014

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I agree that we need the option to use the Design View in fluid grid pages, as opposed to having Adobe force their way on us.

However, if there is a need to edit the fluid grids, you can always paste the deleted hidden DW code back into the CSS file until you get the format as you want it.

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New Here ,
Oct 16, 2014

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You cannot view history in live view. You cannot spell check in live view.

I'm very angry that I just bought a book that came out 2 weeks ago for my html class. The book was required and so far every tutorial in this BRAND NEW book is worthless because they are all done in design view. I do not have any idea why design view isn't in. Does anyone know if there is a way I can downgrade my version to one with a working design view? I'm a little ahead of my class but I can promise you that a lot of my fellow students won't be able to follow along at all in the book or projects without having design view.d

If anyone can help me downgrade my DW please message me or reply and I will check back thank you.

Alec

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New Here ,
Oct 09, 2014

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If they are doing away with Design View, at least make it easy to click in an area, copy and paste, then format the content. I just reverted to DW CC until 2014.2 is out.

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Explorer ,
Oct 11, 2014

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I'm glad someone else has noticed this!!!

But is it Live / Display View missing from Responsive Layouts. I thought it was... then I created a NEW Responsive Layout and it magically worked. There it was - Live / Display on one happy dropdown.

Example:

1) Create a new Responsive Layout. We’ll call it demo.php, fluid.css and the usual accompanying DW files.

2) Enter demo.php and progress is normal. Everything works. You can choose to view both Live and Display and edit accordingly.

3) Close down DW.

4) Open DW and open demo.php

5) There is NO LONGER a Display View option and Live View does not EDIT. (at least it doesn't for me)

6) I can ONLY edit work in CODE view.

Thus, on brand new files, all is fine. The moment DW is closed and the files becomes “old” it can no longer be seen or edited properly.

How can Adobe spend millions promoting it's Responsive Software and then disallow its use? CRAZY. I feel this is a programming error, not a purposeful act.

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Explorer ,
Oct 11, 2014

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In a previous post, on Oct 9th, I stated that I simply deleted the hidden "Dreamweaver Fluid Grid Properties" from the CSS file. The Responsive pages now seem to work fine, and the Design/Live button works, as does spell-check.

This seems like the easiest work-around for existing DW responsive pages.

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Explorer ,
Oct 12, 2014

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@Ron

Ron, thanks for your idea.  I just tried this to my fluid grid css file, and it worked!  The odd thing (at least in my mind) is that the code (shown below) is commented out.  So, even though my web pages ignore this commented out code, Dreamweaver does not... it uses it to control how the Dreamweaver program operates. Well, I guess that this can happen.  This code acts like a "directive" to the Dreamweaver program.

One noticeable change is that in Live view I no longer see the grey strips showing the fluid grid columns, but I can live with this.

This is my novice way of looking at the situation.  But now I am happy.

Here's my exact code (that I deleted) from my css file.  Maybe others can try this and see if it fixes the problem.

/*

  Dreamweaver Fluid Grid Properties

  ----------------------------------

  dw-num-cols-mobile: 4;

  dw-num-cols-tablet: 8;

  dw-num-cols-desktop: 12;

  dw-gutter-percentage: 15;

  Inspiration from "Responsive Web Design" by Ethan Marcotte

  http://www.alistapart.com/articles/responsive-web-design

  and Golden Grid System by Joni Korpi

  http://goldengridsystem.com/

*/

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Community Beginner ,
Oct 12, 2014

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The only problem with this workaround is that it also disables the editing boxes. I appreciate that I can duplicate divs or move them around in code view but resizing them, for example, isn't so simple.

The simple fact is that removing design view from the fluid grid pages was ill conceived and obviously not thought through properly. I have a client site with several pages that have thumbnail images linked to larger versions that pop up in a new div - it's nigh on impossible to easily edit these in live view since, when I click on the thumbnail it immediately shows me the larger version. It's also a pain having to close the slide down "cookies in use warning" every single time I try to open a page to work on it! The inability to run spell check in live view simply beggars belief - this cannot be deliberate surely? I could go on - frankly it's a mess.

I've reverted to Dreamweaver version 13.

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Oct 12, 2014

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@Vernon,

Thank you for reporting the issues that you're facing.

All,

We are closely following the discussions on this thread & taking note of the problems that you're facing.

Newer age responsive layouts use HTML5 elements that would not get rendered accurately in design view. There is really no option but to move to Live View.

We are working on making Live View editing as easy as possible for you. Please list down the workflows/functionalities you find missing in Live View.

-Subhadeep

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Explorer ,
Oct 13, 2014

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I don't pretend to be the worlds best programmer, which is why I use DW. The WYSIWYG properties are what sold DW in the first place - designing what you SEE and letting DW do the coding.

I can't see how designing is possible without the ability to turn-off Live View.

EXAMPLE:

I have a simple members-only section. So I have

1) login.php  -  lets the user sign in

2) welcome.php - CHECKS if the user is logged in, in they're not it sends them back to login.php, else displays the members page.

BUT in Live View, when trying to update welcome.php all I see is login.php - because DW reads the php and reroutes the display to show what a un-signed-in-user would see.

In 2014.0 this was easy - just work in Design View - but as 2014.1 has no working design view for responsive layout and as the plan to eventually scrap design view altogether, life just became harder for me as I will have to add or delete some php code just to get Live View to see the actual page I'm working on.

In short - if you cannot turn off Live View, DW is less useful. It's a step backwards!

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Participant ,
Oct 13, 2014

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This reminds me when DW CC in July 2013 was released and Ajax Spry was removed.. Now spry had issues with mobile device and Jquery works better. This makes sense, however there was no replacement for creating menus in Jquery.

So it was suggested by a Adobe staff member to use Advanced CSS Menu Light which had its its own issues which in fairness the vendor resolved.


I asked if a Jquery menu function would be added, I was told by a staff member that it would followed up with a product team and the last update was " We definitely have a plan to integrate jQuery menu widget in Dreamweaver, but we are still working on a date for this one."  Well we are approaching 2015 and still no update. to add insult to injury.. the latest DW update has broken the AJATIX menu for at least one person.


So at the risk of sounding rude, when you say "We are working on making Live View editing as easy as possible for you. " I question if that will really happen. Fool me once.. shame on you.. fool me twice.. shame on me. Even more so considering what we pay a premium for these applications and there are some (like myself) who are BC partners and we make money for Adobe.


The past thread I am talking about is here.


For this customer.. Adobes trustworthiness is in question...  I hope it is restored quickly.

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Explorer ,
Oct 13, 2014

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Subhadeep, I will provide you my brief list.

In Live view, 1) Spell check and many of the other features of the "Commands" menu are unavailable. 

2) In Live view, Find/Replace (command/control -F) does not work.

3) In Live view, it is nearly impossible to left-drag through a webpage in order to copy/paste into another webpage.

Here are the Commands features in Design View

commands01.jpg

Here is the reduced list in Live View.  Is it not obvious what is missing?

commands02.jpg

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Explorer ,
Oct 20, 2014

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It's like a Christmas miracle. It fixed it for me too!

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Enthusiast ,
Nov 13, 2014

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Part of what I do is promote Adobe products to design companies and encourage these companies that I work with to upgrade to the latest versions of software. An issue I keep coming across with potential 'upgraders' is the links in live view are 'live' and act just like they would do in a browser. So, if I try to  click to select a button in a jQuery slider, or in a navigation bar made from an unordered list, it acts like a link and therefore I am unable to add further content in design view. Slideshows are particularly difficult to edit. it leads to frustration and ultimately abandonment of the new software.

Further frustration is if a PHP page requires a database, but the database isn't available to connect to or Apache and MySQL aren't installed, you get 'No database selected' or 'Cannot connect to the server' instead of a designed layout… there's a beautiful view of the fluid grid guides though! If connection to the database is successful, invariably there will be a repeat region which slows the page redraw down MASSIVELY, and even then, if the repeated region is a div that has been enclosed in  href tags, then the whole div and all of its contents become an active button, thus making it difficult to click into and edit… and just to reiterate what others have said, if you try to work on a password protected page, you get the login page displayed instead of what you're trying to work on… that's been quite embarrassing to justify, in fact, I can't!

In the short while this upgrade has been available, I am now having trouble convincing companies to upgrade. These issues are not conducive to improved workflow and ultimately impact on profit. If you're actively forcing users to work in code view, then you're discouraging DW customers - the visual users - to move to the next version of software. There are a number of excellent text editors out there like Sublime Text, but that's not what DW users want. I still see a large number of companies using boxed versions of CS6, and such confusing deprecation of functions is proving to be a hard sell, especially when digital content is being produced in greater volumes now than it ever has been before.

Anyway, I'm sure some of you have figured this out, but in order to retain the commented fluid grid properties in the CSS file, and disable the default live view, you can simply add a character to the commented code… it seems any character will do:

/*

  Dreamweaver Fluid Grid Properties

  ----------------------------------

  dw-num-cols-mobile:  X  4;

  dw-num-cols-tablet:    8;

  dw-num-cols-desktop:    12;

  dw-gutter-percentage:    30;

This 'X' or whatever you use breaks the code and activates the design view, but lets you retain the code should you wish to revert back in order to use the new features.

Anyway, bring back design view!

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Nov 13, 2014

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Hello matthew,

The issues you mentioned were really insightful. This type of descriptive information helps us understand the exact issue & in creating actionable items.

While I cannot commit that Design View will be back, we are definitely looking at improving responsive workflows for the next major release.

Rest assured that all the problems listed by users here have been jotted down & are being worked upon.

Thanks,

Subhadeep

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Contributor ,
Nov 14, 2014

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SUbhadeep,

While  I do understand that you can't commit that design view won't be back, can you indicate whether live view will be greatly improved to the point that it actually works!

Can you tell us if it will be as good as or better than Pinegrow or Macaw in terms of the performance with no lag in rendering? Will we be able to select elements for editing easily with out the spinning ball like you can with these much cheaper alternatives? Will dreamweaver be fast like a hare like it used to be or will it get slower than a tortoise like it is now?

These guys obviously don't have the rescourses Adobe has but they seem to have achieved something on a shoe string budget that works and has great development potential. That is a live view that works!!

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Participant ,
Nov 14, 2014

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Given the uproar over the removal of design view.. I find it disconcerting to read "While I cannot commit that Design View will be back" ( I assume he meant to say 'comment') I would think that such concerns would be the number one importance.

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Explorer ,
Nov 14, 2014

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Well, their development team must be aware of the issues for everyday users of DW following this discussion. But we'll see...

Adobe's revenue from CC has dropped a lot lately so they really ought to be listening to us, the users. See Dark clouds for Adobe as profits slide by 46% | News | PC Pro

If Design View is screwed up, removed or not replaced with something similar, for me personally, it might be the defining moment that I cancel my subscription (which is a significant cost) and switch to new software alternatives for everything I do. I could buy a copy of PS Elements to replace PS for instance. So lets hope they're listening.

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Explorer ,
Nov 14, 2014

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madwebllc wrote:

Given the uproar over the removal of design view.. I find it disconcerting to read "While I cannot commit that Design View will be back" ( I assume he meant to say 'comment') I would think that such concerns would be the number one importance.

Many of us will be disappointed.

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Explorer ,
Nov 14, 2014

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I find it amusing that you think you would get any answer of substance from Subhadeep, he has no answers , and no information, and does little to give us any hint that Adobe even cares about it's end users.

His first reply in this thread was to ask the OP to beta test this software

*****

Hello Ron,

We understand that it is always difficult to work with new features, but once you get used to it we assure you that you'd never want to go back.

The older Fluid Grid framework used to rely on an outdated browser engine. This time we have replaced it with the Chromium Embedded Framework.

What it means for you is that, you'll get the same rendering in Live View as you'd expect in Chrome or Safari. So, you'll be spending less time switching between the browser & DW.

If you can list down the workflows you are trying while editing in Live View & the issues you are facing in doing so, it will help us understand what is amiss & suggest alternative workflows to do the same.

Let us know !

-Subhadeep

*****

Anyone paying monthly fees should be absolutely enraged by that, seriously, The devs broke the software , and we are paying for the privilege to give beta feedback, seriouslyh ,anyone running the current version should be getting thier dues for free,

things seem backwards here to me.

our next remark from Subhadeep besically says suck it, and deal with it... his response does nothing to deal with the issues that web developers using the Adobe Fluid Grid issues ..... they are making live view easier for us,

So I guess we just take it lying down keep paying for broken software, never has there been any feedback of positive reinforcement of what the devs are doing...

More rage~~

****************

@Vernon,

Thank you for reporting the issues that you're facing.

All,

We are closely following the discussions on this thread & taking note of the problems that you're facing.

Newer age responsive layouts use HTML5 elements that would not get rendered accurately in design view. There is really no option but to move to Live View.

We are working on making Live View editing as easy as possible for you. Please list down the workflows/functionalities you find missing in Live View.

-Subhadeep

*****

Our next response from Subhadeep  was to thank Ray for Beta feedback

****

Thank you for listing down your problems Ray.

-Subhadeep

***

This thread is full of people that have reported the issue to support only to have thier cases closed with no support feedback,

in these Adobe forums we have Subhadeep to give us null answers and keep the masses calm

WELL I AM NOT CALM , I AM RAGING MAD

Next response from Subhadeep  was to once again ask for beta help, the simple thing that we have all experienced , and this thread has been about was fluid grids and live view and Subhadeep  is asking for files for something easily recreated in a lab

environment.... none of the bitching that we do even goes to the devs, I find it highly unlikely that anyone with any juice at all reads or receives feedback from this forum , no all we have is  Subhadeep to give us NON answers, this level of support is horrific, I would expect this from some third world dev company , I do not expect it from Adobe


so on to our next official response from Subhadeep, something that was actually off topic, but still pertinent to end users~


once again a request for something that is easily recreated, and this issue falls in more forum threads than just this one,

Dreamweaver is seriously broken, but the end users should tell you what to fix rather than debugging the app


*****************

Ron,

If you have files which are particularly slow to load in Live VIew, can you just mail them across to me at subbaner_@_adobe.com.

We are investigating issues related to slow loading and would appreciate if others can also send their files related to slowness in Live View.

Thanks,

Subhadeep

*********************

RAGE

If we are to beta test , make it worth our while ,

or just fix the issues~ but dont make use pay you to debug the software

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Participant ,
Nov 16, 2014

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I know that Adobe was expecting a drop in revenue as some wouldn't be interested into going to a subscription model. But from the looks of it they are getting hit far harder then they expected.

I have begun to make contingency plans to move off of the Adobe platform (including my business catalyst clients) if design view or an alternative which functions the same is not brought back. Right now Microsoft Visual Studio hosted on Azure is under strong consideration. Now as RR456 commented about how a CC subscription is 'null and void' if we have to use a prior version. As I touched on before it doesn't bother me the least that Adobe did something that pissed off its customers. Its how they are handling it that bothers me. I challenge Adobe to do the following:

  1. Acknowledge this update failed in standards and wasn't properly tested prior to release. (I refuse to believe that properly tested software would created this much backlash. If you feel it was, then fire your quality control team)
  2. Make a commitment that design view will return or something of extremely similar function will be added to the next release. (where DW is meant for a more advanced level of web developer, design view helps those with lesser code skills to produce quality products of the advance level developer. For the code snobs who feel DV is not needed my suggestion for you is... don't use it
  3. If you seek our input and want us to participate in meetings about Adobe products, or expect us to send you our work to help you troubleshoot, you better make it worth our while. Pay us, discounted (better yet free) software.. something. Asking us for such in depth assistance for something WE pay YOU to fix tells me you are stalling and have no serious intention on fixing the issue. If you can't do that, then this form is your only source of feedback you are going to get.

Make a commitment to right this wrong, once you make a promise then stand by it... Then you will find a lot of forgiveness from yours.. until then.. Don't act surprised by your bottom line dropping so hard.

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New Here ,
Nov 27, 2014

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I just want to add my frustration at the loss of Design View (amongst other things) - there have been many good points made in this thread (I don't particularly want to get involved with negative views, but understand where they are coming from).  I just want to add my voice to the cause in the hope Adobe will hear us - I have been using Dreamweaver since it was a Macromedia product (however long ago that was, I forget now!!!) and have long supported it (and Adobe), but this latest release has left me scratching my head.  I was initially excited by the prospect of some of the changes, but that quickly turned to dread as I realised what a mess it is to work with.  I would gladly sign petitions, vote for change or whatever is necessary, but really don't know where to do that most effectively.  I have completed the survey form I could find in the hope some of that feedback may be heard, but still fear my (our) voice may be lost in the enormousness of the Internet and the unknown internal processes of Adobe customer relations/product development & customer feedback.

I've only just scratched the surface here, but there seem to be so many things affected by this one feature - for instance I can't even seem to visually see the Title element of the page - I have to go into code view to update that!  Not a massive thing, but just begs the question, where the hell did it go, and more importantly why???

These all seem to be little indicators that all add up and point to a scary possibility that maybe there has been a shift in the development team for Dreamweaver that obviously have not been using the product for as long as most of the end-users.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the need for change and progress and new technologies/ideas will require new tools, but that doesn't mean you need to destroy the old tools.

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 17, 2015

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Thisi may be a little late, but Ajatix products only work for the current version of DW when they sold thier products.  At least that is what they told me when I told the that their products aren't responsive in DWCC as they were in CS6.  Their software, at least my version, only works in 32 bit versions of DW.  If you want to work in CC (64 bit)  You have to shell out the money to re-purchase their products.  I'm just taking the time to really get good at making my own CSS menus.  I am so disapointed in DWCC (it really sucks in my opinion, and would never recommend it to anyone), that I still use CS6.  CC didn't give me anything I needed that was not in CC.  In fact, as mentioned, they are taking things away.  They need to replace the whole DW design team with people who actually care about their products, and customers.  Or just sell DWCC to Microsoft, where we expect crappy software.

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Community Beginner ,
Oct 13, 2014

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In looking through all the comments in this thread it seems that no one is 'annoyed', unlike me, that whereas previously I could switch from design to live with a single 'click', now I have to make 2 clicks - firstly to activate the arrow-head selector then secondly to actually make the selection. My arithmetic makes that a 100% increase in effort.

Given the acreage that I now have on my 'document' toolbar (and why move the upload/download button all the way to the right anyway) combining the previously independent buttons makes even less sense.

Also I think the earlier observation (by vernon) that removing the grid comments is relevant as it seems doing so also de-activate all the editing short menu of a right-click - at least that appears to be happening to me this afternoon as I get the arrow-head but no menu (Other options not affected). So it is now not possible to duplicate a file only to create a copy by opening it and saving under a new name (but which will not work for any graphics files I believe). A copy is not universally recognised as a duplicate is it? Creating a duplicate makes it safer to meddle with code etc as one can always get back to a steady state even after numerous changes that may not have had the desired effect.

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Contributor ,
Oct 13, 2014

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@Beezold

I am annoyed  that design view is gone for fluid grid. What annoys me is that I see hints that it will also be discontinued generally and no confirmation officially that this is the case and even worse no denial either.

I use DW because of its capabilities and design view is a major part of that and it would be a disater if I lost that. I use Bootstap from DWXzone for responsive sites but again I work in design view and would like to keep it that way.

Maybe some one from the Adobe team would like to detail exactly the companies position on this and state clearly if the eventual scheme of things is to remove design view completely or commit to it being retained?

Maybe after all this fluid grid design view removal in 2014.1 is an error but it would be good for Adobe to step up to the plate and explain this officially for us all.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 13, 2014

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Nobody who is under NDA can comment about Adobe's  "future plans" until Adobe makes an official announcement.

I can say from many year's experience on these forums that long-time users of DW are not satisfied with the current Design View model.  It worked well when Macromedia designed it back when table-based layouts were common place.  But Design View has suffered greatly over the years with advancements in CSS & HTML5.  It just hasn't been able to keep pace with the ever-changing W3C standards. 

If Live View were improved sufficiently to render well, perform well, and edit well, would that be such a bad thing?

Just my 2 cents,

Nancy O.

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web.com

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Contributor ,
Oct 13, 2014

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Nancy it is not a bad thing at all as long as it works and I don't see where Adobe cant give a brief outline of plans. Many larger corporations than Adobe do just that - it shows good faith with their clients and can go a long way to bolstering confidence and though comment and disscussion engineers can also learn what is really relevant rather than what they or marketing trends dictate.

If Live view is set to be the replacement for Design view fine but why take it away for fluid grids when the replacement is still not up to the task - the comments above certainly back that up.

Adobe of late seem intent on this course taking away before the replacements or better alternatives are in place.

With regard to design view not keeping pace with CSS & HTML5 - would it not be fair to say that DW engineers have just simply ignored it somewhat over the years - We have all known for years which direction CSS and HTML5 are going as I am sure the good folk at Adobe have as well.

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Adobe Employee ,
Oct 13, 2014

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Hi all,

We are actively monitoring this discussion to collect all inputs you have on the changes. We will share this information with the product team to see how best these concerns can be addressed.

Thanks,

Preran

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Explorer ,
Oct 13, 2014

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Thank you Preran,

Design View as an essential tool and is the basis for using Dreamweaver!  This is especially true for working with fluid grids, PHP files, and other frameworks. Live View is fine as an extra, but I can't see it ever reproducing the workflow that is possible in Design View.  Ok, it's great that Live View uses Chromium for better page rendering.  So great, we can preview more accurately within the Dreamweaver environment, but please let us switch back to Design View where we can get our work done.

(reverting back to DW CC as I type)

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Community Beginner ,
Oct 14, 2014

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For sure, it wouldn't be a bad thing  - but only if Live View actually provided all of the functionality of Design View. Sadly, it doesn't seem to at present.

Copying and pasting text is not as easy, spell check doesn't function, page elements with links or pop ups are difficult to edit .... it also seems slow at times

Design view should never have been removed from Fluid Grid pages before Live View was able to offer at least the same functionality.

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Explorer ,
Oct 14, 2014

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Yes, thank you Preran,

But surely the question is, WHY ARE WE HAVING TO DO THIS?

DW is not a new product and many would argue it to be an industry standard tool. Thus it's easy to imagine that DW is developed by people that actually build websites. Yet everything I'm reading above makes me question if this is actually the case. I don't see ANYONE above saying, "Display View? Pile of crap! Don't need it," and yet I am seeing many people essentially saying, "Live View? Pile of crap! Don't need it."

Personally I never use Live View. If I want to see how the page will perform on the web, I use a Browser. Actually I use the top 5 browsers!

But coming back to my point, if DW was built by people who actually build websites, then they either live in a Matrix-like world and see everything as line code, therefore never using Design View, or their designs are so poor that seeing what it looks like really doesn't matter. We mere mortals like to "see" our designs. And as we've been encouraged in the past by Adobe to use the benefits of Responsive Layout, we want to continue to be able to see our designs.

I found 2014.1 extremely slow. Editing in live view for me simply DID NOT work, and I mean that literally. It failed to function. I spent a week back and forth with support staff Akshay M to correct the matter whilst I had to try and build / maintain clients' sites using code view only - no easy task. But Akshay was vague, insisted Live View was working, even though in a screen share I proved it was, and he eventually gave up with the comment, "Fluid grid documents now open directly in Live View. You cannot view or edit fluid grid documents in Design View any more."

Thus I uninstalled and went back to 2014.0 because I have to earn a living. At some point I dare say 2014.0 will become inoperable and if DW will not allow me to work in design view by then, I will seek an alternative product.

So again, why are we having to do this? Why didn't Adobe test properly - with real web designers?

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Participant ,
Oct 14, 2014

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As I touched on in the previous post about the previous thread Preran and you said in that thread as well that you would share this with the product team to address our concerns. THAT WAS IN JULY OF 2013!  and you NEVER got back to us.

Is there a reason why I should believe you now?

What is telling about this thread is that multiple people have tried to make this so called 'update' work and have failed. This isn't just a person or two who is stubborn about learning new features. This is a work disruption.

I too will consider an alternative products if design view is not returned, or if they are unable/unwilling to make live view function in a matter that the people in here want to see (or something reasonably close)

The thread I was talking about is here.

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Explorer ,
Oct 14, 2014

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Regarding Tropical Soul's comment on the official intentions of Adobe regarding this issue. Below is an extract from a Support Chat:

Akshay : Actually Geoff, the plan is that Live view would replace design view in future, that is why by default the customers would now get Live view as the editing option on the first time usage.


It's clearly already determined.

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Participant ,
Oct 14, 2014

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Since that is the case, lets hope they take this feedback very seriously and make live view less of a hassle.

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Explorer ,
Oct 14, 2014

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@ GA and @Preran,

I mentioned (above) that I implemented Ron's fix, and it seems to be working well.  I too experienced failure when trying to edit my fluid grid documents.  I have always considered these fluid grid designs to be the way of the future (i.e., responsive), I found them easy to implement within Dreamweaver, and I seem to think that this really is the way of the future.  So why would Adobe make changes to Dreamweaver (remove design view, or design Live view ignoring fluid designs) and call this progress?

It may be too late for you to give Ron's suggestion a try.  I am hoping that others here will try this fix and then comment about what is wrong with it.  So far, I haven't found any problems.  I seem to get the old Design View back, and whenever I want to use the new Live View, I just toggle the switch over to it.

Here is how my DW2014.1 looks now.

toggle.jpg

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Community Beginner ,
Oct 14, 2014

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As I mentioned earlier though - this "fix" just brings back the design view button.

Unfortunately it also removes the editing tools that should appear when you right click on a div/object to edit (The arrow keys, the duplicate div button, the delete div button, the resize arrows, the apply zero margin button ......)

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Explorer ,
Oct 14, 2014

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I commend Ron for his thoughtful and proactive approach. Well done!

What a shame Adobe aren't as helpful. They seem to claim it can't be done and yet here is Ron who (I'm guessing - sorry if I'm wrong about this Ron) is NOT a software engineer, who has a fix.

If Ron can come up with this work-around, which may have a few flaws, why haven't Adobe FIXED the issue completely? Perhaps they should hire Ron.

Surely this is not something we want, this is something WE DEMAND! After all, we're paying for it.

Adobe, listen to your customers! As designers, we have to.

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Community Beginner ,
Oct 17, 2014

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Thank you Peran

I have complex text heavy websites designed with fluid grids. Check spelling is crucial. So that is my priority, and I'd prefer not wait for a big update to fix it. If it is going to be a long wait, please make it as easy as one click to revert to 2014.0. rickjerz's screenshots of the drop down menus should be as good a starting point as any for seeing what else has been broken, but the designers must surely know this already.

In addition I use accordion drop downs as a simple way of providing a drop down text box for additional text. At irregular intervals clicking away from text edited within the drop down in live view results in the view switching to the top of the page and part or the entire paragraph is deleted. Selecting undo restores the missing paragraph. Until I was aware of the significance of the live view switching to to the top of the page, I was loosing text edits without realising this. In addition sometimes the accordion closes when shifting from one live edit paragraph to another. Both of these issues existed in the previous version, but it was just an irritation because it was possible to switch out of Live view.

Cheers, Malcolm

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Explorer ,
Mar 13, 2015

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Big problem, the absence of design view. But what bothers me most, is that I can hardly get live view do anything. I click 20 or 30 times in it and nothing happens. Then suddenly it does react and I see boxes and I can edit. Well - if I haven't already gone back to the old CC full of frustration. Happy that I have them both in my PC!

Is there a way to start editing in live view?

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Mar 13, 2015

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Yes Lise,

You can edit your elements directly inside Live View. When you click on an element in Live View, you'll get a blue-bordered box (called Element display).

You can then either double-click or hit Enter/Return to get into Live edit mode & start editing the content.

Press Ctrl/Cmd+T to invoke the Quick tag editor while on an Element display and change your element tag in real time.

Here are some tutorials & help articles to get you started:

How to design, edit, and preview web pages with new Live View features | Adobe Dreamweaver CC tutori...

Dreamweaver Help | Edit in Live View

Hope this helps!

Subhadeep

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Explorer ,
Mar 18, 2015

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Subhadeep, thanks for the tutorials!!

My biggest problem is, that clicking in the page does not show blue boxes. I have to go on clicking, many times, trying different spots, and then suddenly a box appears and I can finally start editing. I really miss design view, I hope it will come back for fluid grid pages again.

I will look at the tutorials, maybe there is something I am doing wrong.

Lise

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Mar 18, 2015

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Lise,

The Element display will appear only when the page has loaded fully.

Lookout for the refresh/stop icon on the document toolbar.

loading...png

Cheers,

Subhadeep

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Explorer ,
Mar 20, 2015

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So it was simply the long time it needed loading... Thanks!!

Going to use CC, and not CC 2014 until this has improved.

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