[Locked] Creative Cloud in Canadian Dollars | Taking Steps to Fight Adobe

[TheLandOfDustin]

To all of my fellow Canadian Creative Cloud users, I'd like to start a new discussion about our struggle to get change and action from Adobe to allow a Canadian Dollar option when purchasing or renewing Creative Cloud subscriptions.

As of you know well by now, Adobe charges Canadians in USD for CC subscriptions. This is clearly unfair, especially when the Canadian dollar is so low next to the US dollar. This has been the trend now for several years and this makes purchasing or renewing CC an expensive and ever-changing cost each year. Of course Adobe has no control over currency exchange rates, but what Adobe does have the power to do is offer their products in Canadian dollars.

The reason is very clear as to why they don't offer a CAD option. Someone would have to pay the exchange. They would clearly loose money on those subscriptions if they offered Canadians the advertised rate in our currency. They pass that cost onto us. So, instead Adobe will give vague excuses like "we don't have offices in Canada" or "The Canadian government won't let us". This is all corporate talk BS. Think about how many American-based companies that offer e-commerce in the local currency of the customer regardless of the country they live in. Adobe could do the same, but choose not to.

It is important to bring this up: In a world where any online users have access to illegally obtain any piece of software they want, some still choose to buy their software. But, when faced with the dilemma of choosing between a massive rich corporation nickel-and-diming users to get every penny out of them, or, doing a Google search for torrents, the problem becomes worse. I believe that many Canadians would rather buy their software the honest way, but it is becoming more hard to support Adobe. I've actually never been so appalled by the lack of reasoning or customer service before by any company. Ever.

I want people to continue to call, chat support, or message Adobe on social media and voice your discontent with their decisions. Feel free to share what customer service agents tell you - compare notes. I want to do everything I can to escalate our claim and try my damned hardest to get a hold of an actual human being who I can actually send an email to or call to get some real answers. I will not back down, nor should you. This is worth the fight - it is abundantly clear that Adobe has shown no respect to it's Canadian customers.

Let's stand together and tell Adobe to start respecting it's Canadian customers.

[Michael Karst]

Thank you for your tireless efforts theDustinWilliam!!!

I am also eternally aggravated at the stonewall of lies that Adobe is giving its Canadian customers. Why are Canadians being singled out by Adobe? Why does Adobe allow customers from 35 other countries to pay in their own currency but not Canada? Why are Canadians being grouped together with customers from Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan and being forced to pay in US dollars?

Canadians have seen their costs increase by 50% since Creative Cloud pricing was introduced 2013 -- that's not because of promotional pricing, or because Adobe raised their rates, or because of local taxes -- that's purely due to the change in value between the Canadian and US dollar -- and because Adobe refuses to let Canadians pay with their own currency. That's an increase of $25/month or $300/year for an individual Create Cloud license (on top of the advertised price of US$50/mo or US$600/yr). The cost adds up very quickly for someone who must rely on Adobe software for their career for decades on end.

What really irks me more, is that I get calls from predatory Adobe reps every year on my annual renewal date trying to upgrade me to a team licence of Creative Cloud for even more money -- quietly warning me that the cost of individual licenses will increase as much as US$25/mo with the next "market correction" in 6-12 months.

I did speak with several Adobe reps about this issue -- I think all of their reps were based in India, so I'm not sure they actually appreciate the legitimacy of our concerns -- and after trying to get me off the phone with offers of 2 months of free credit or refusing to escalate my call to their supervisor, I was finally given the same BS answers we've been getting for the last 4 years -- "we're working on it" or "the government won't let us". Adobe, we simply don't believe you. This is the cost of doing business in the world today. Why are you acting like this is new to you? Yes, Adobe does have offices in Canada -- https://www.adobe.com/ca/about-adobe/contact/offices.html -- and yes, Adobe does charge Canadian taxes on their products, so why not bill Canadians in their own currency? It just makes good sense for ANY company doing business in ANY country.

The best advice I can give my fellow Canadians is -- if you really *must* pay for Adobe software -- switch your billing cycle to pay annually instead of monthly. The price is the same (no cost savings from Adobe), but at least you only suffer the currency conversion once a year instead of every month.

In the meantime, please let Adobe know how much you care about this issue.

[Michael Karst]

I just spoke with Adobe again. I called Adobe's office in Ottawa but their receptionist refused to direct my call to anywhere but the 1-800 customer support number. She said there's nobody in the Canadian office who can help with anything related to Adobe's relationship with Canadian customers -- it's just a corporate office staffed with developers. Apparently no Canadian liaisons or decisions-makers work there. She did say that Adobe has a support center in San Jose, California. If you call customer support after 11am (EST) you might get someone there instead of India, but so far I haven't been that lucky.

My call was escalated twice with Adobe customer support in India. I first spoke with Gerrard who at first refused to escalate my call. He gave me only two answers. Paying with Canadian dollars is "not available at this time" and "the government won't let us". He refused to clarify what he meant by that. He said he couldn't comment on why other US companies were billing in Canadian dollars, he said he could only speak for Adobe.

The call was escalated to Deepak who told me that he's the "top" supervisor. He told the same two answers. He seemed to understand my question, but he still stonewalled me with scripted answers. Whenever I asked "why is it not available", he simply repeated "that option is not available at this time". Whenever I asked him how the Canadian government was preventing Adobe from billing in Canadian dollars, he rambled on about taxes and feature requests, but never gave any clear answers.

Deepak admitted to me more than once that not allowing Canadians to pay in their own currency was a deliberate decision made my Adobe (apparently as a result of some government policy). When pressed about it though, he refused to say that the Canadian government was directly responsible for preventing Adobe from billing in Canadian dollars, only that they were responsible for the taxes charged on top of the base rate (which wasn't my question) -- so he either didn't understand my question, or he was deliberately trying to confuse the situation. I asked him again to repeat what he understood the question to be and what the consequences were for Canadian customers. He seemed to understand the question, he was simply choosing not to (or was unable to) answer it.

He said if I didn't like his answers, I should post a question in the Adobe forums. I told him there were no answers there -- Canadians have been asking the same questions for 4 years. He told me there was nowhere else to go, that it wasn't only me, that Adobe would let me know when the option was available, etc. He started to say that I should look elsewhere for answers (such as a lawyer) but then he refused to admit to me that he had actually said that.

In the end he said he was escalating my call to Adobe legal offices and that they would call me back with answers.

[Michael Karst]

This is just a follow-up on my call with Adobe (outlined in my earlier post). I had a long chat with Akit Khurana (Lead Technical Support from the "escalation team") about this issue and he seemed to appreciate my concerns. He promised to escalate the complaints to a more executive level and I offered to put the details in writing to help him to do so. He said that in the future, I should contact him directly to follow up on this issue and that the ticket would not be closed until it was dealt with properly.

This is a VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE that affects all Canadian Adobe customers, especially given the current political climate in the US and predictions that the Canadian dollar is going to weaken even further as a result of it.

The letter below is what I sent to him.

-- LETTER TO ADOBE --

Dear Mr. Khurana,

First of all, thank you for taking the time to speak with me on the phone on November 15, 2016. Your feedback and attentiveness were very much appreciated.

As we discussed over the phone, I would like to outline in writing the issues that Canadian Adobe customers are having with how Adobe chooses to charge its Canadian customers in a foreign currency for its software. This is an issue which has been unresolved and ongoing since 2013 -- when Adobe Creative Cloud subscriptions started to become available in Canada.

In 2013, Canadians were understandably surprised when they couldn't pay for Adobe subscriptions in their own currency, but were instead being forced to pay in US dollars. When asked about this, the standard answer from Adobe customer service was "that option is not available at this time" or "we're working on it". It's now the end of 2016 and this issue is still not resolved. Canadians are still asking why they can't pay for Adobe subscriptions in Canadian dollars and Adobe customer service is still giving us the same scripted answers -- "that option is not available at this time" or "we're working on it" -- some reps have even gone so far as to blame the Canadian government for this issue.

After hearing the same answers for 4 years, I'm sure you can appreciate that Canadians are quickly becoming very frustrated with Adobe and why we don't believe that Adobe is actually taking these complaints seriously.

Unfortunately, this issue has a much bigger financial impact on Canadian customers than Adobe seems willing to realize.

For example:

In 2013, Adobe persuaded many of its customers to start subscribing to Adobe Creative Cloud for about US$30/month (for an individual license). At the end of this promotional period, the cost for Creative Cloud rose to about US$50/month and has remained more or less the same since then.

For Adobe's Canadian customers, the value of the Canadian dollar in 2013 was about the same as the US dollar. So, US$50/month cost about the same in Canadian dollars (CA$50/month). In 2016, the difference in value between the Canadian and the US dollar has been much different. In January 2016, a US$50/month subscription cost about CA$72.50/month for Canadian customers (not including taxes). When considering the currency exchange rate alone (which has nothing to do with Adobe or its customers), that's an increase of about 145%.

If you also take into account the difference in cost between an individual license for Adobe Creative Cloud in 2013 (US$30/month - promotional price) versus the same subscription in 2016 (US$50/month - regular price). That's an increase of 240% for Canadian customers (not including taxes), compared to only 166% for US customers. That's a big increase for anyone to have to pay in less than 4 years.

Furthermore, whenever my annual Creative Cloud subscription renews, I get calls from aggressive Adobe sales reps warning me that the cost of my Creative Cloud subscription is going to increase by US$10-15/month with the next market correction, sometime in the next 12 months (usually while trying to convince me to buy a more expensive 3-year team license plan). If such predictions are true, then I would be paying nearly CA$100/month for a Creative Cloud subscription -- that's an increase of 333% (not including taxes).

If Canadian customers were able to pay for their subscriptions in their own currency, then at least that would eliminate the currency exchange rate variable and they would know how much their subscriptions are actually going to cost from month to month (or year to year). However, because Adobe forces its Canadian customers to pay for their subscriptions in a foreign currency, Canadians never really know how much their subscription is going to cost the next time it appears on their credit card statement.

What makes this issue even more frustrating to Canadian customers, is that Adobe allows customers from 30 other countries around the world to pay in their own local currency -- but Canada, the United States' biggest trading partner and closest ally, cannot.

When you consider it, this is not an issue that should have come as a big surprise to Adobe. Canadians have been using Adobe software for over 30 years. I have personally been using Adobe software in my work for over 20 years. Adobe enjoys a privileged position in the creative market as millions of professionals rely on Adobe software everyday to be able to produce their work. There are thousands of US-based companies who sell products and services to Canadians every day in their own currency, and there are plenty of US-based software companies who also sell subscription-based software to Canadians in their own currency.

For a company as well-established as Adobe not to be supporting a Canadian currency option in its online store seems both willfully ignorant and amateurish -- especially considering the complexity and quality of Adobe software and how long Adobe has been in business.

We are paying customers, professionals, businesses, universities and schools who can't help but feel ripped off by Adobe -- not because of the move toward subscription-based pricing -- but because Adobe still refuses to allow Canadians to pay for Adobe software in Canadian dollars, and for no apparent reason.

Thank you for your patience.

[Michael Karst]

Just another quick follow-up. Mr Khurana at Adobe recently asked for permission to close my support ticket on the issue surrounding Canadian currency that I opened last month. I expressed my extreme reluctance to have this ticket closed and potentially forgotten, but he assured me closing the ticket would not mean that the issue is not going to be addressed. This case is apparently in the queue for his team to investigate, but he advised me it may be several months before it is resolved to our satisfaction.

I have assured Mr Khurana that I will keep following up with him about this case in the coming months to ask him for a report on his team's progress. Hopefully this means that someone at Adobe is at least taking this issue somewhat seriously.

[Michael Karst]

UPDATE: I have been following up with Adobe on this issue since mid-November 2016. I was able to get it escalated to someone within the company (Ankit Khurana, Lead Technical Support from the "escalation team") who was actually honest and agreed with me about the Canadian pricing issue. He swears that his team is looking into it and that it has been added to their to-do list. I was recently in touch with him again and heard back from him on Friday when he promised to follow up on the case and respond to me shortly. Here's a brief timeline:

November 15, 2016 -- I spoke with Mr. Khurana for the first time. He understood and agreed with my position on pricing Adobe products in Canadian currency and promised to escalate my case to the appropriate level.

December 8, 2016 -- Mr. Khurana confirmed with me that the case had been added to the to-do list for his team to investigate.

December 13, 2016 -- Mr. Khurana asked for permission to close my support ticket but assured me that the case was NOT being flagged as "resolved" and that it would remain in my account history with the ability to re-open it at any time. He invited me to continue following up with him directly about the Canadian currency issue rather than go through the Adobe 1-800 customer support number. I promised that I would keep following up on this case with him for as long as it took to resolve the issue properly.

March 7, 2017 -- I contacted Mr. Khurana to follow up on the Canadian currency issue and he notified me that the case had been pushed into the next quarter due to internal changes and other priorities at Adobe.

July 28, 2017 -- After several e-mails, I finally heard back from Mr. Khurana. He promised to follow up with me sometime this week on the status of this case.

All cynicism aside, I plan to continue following up with Mr Khurana about this case and following whatever internal processes Adobe feels it must follow to address such a simple but glaring oversight. I still don't understand why the lack of support for the Canadian dollar in its online store is such a difficult task for Adobe solve, such that it has taken more than 4 years (2013-2017) for Canadian Adobe customers just to get to this point. I can only hope that this process continues to move forward, not backward.

[Jenni_Merrifield]

michaelkarst - Thank you so much for your efforts towards this problem. I am a user experience designer who is currently only on a part-time contract. The changing cost of the Creative Cloud subscription from exchange absolutely plays havoc with my budget and while I have just put up with it (as have the rest of us) for a number of years I am finding it far more problematic now that my income level has dropped dramatically.

The next time you are speaking to Mr. Khurana could you find out his opinion on having others send similar letters to him? If he thinks it would help perhaps we could start a letter-writing campaign asking other Canadian CreativeCloud subscribers to send an email in their own words to an email account created for the purpose prior to some deadline and then send what is received to Adobe.

Another thought I had would be to start one of those online petitions to collect signatures from Canadians with this concern. And then pointing Mr. Khurana at the petition so he can point to it as a sign that this really is a significant issue. There are several sites we could choose from:

• Change.org 
• Activism - Petition Online Canada
• iPetitions

-Jenni

EDITED TO ADD:  Found another thread related to this topic which had a Change.org petition in place a couple of years ago which was closed and sent to Adobe's President about a year ago. So perhaps that option would be less useful than a letter-writing campaign. We could make it more impactful by printing out the messages and physically mailing them. -J

[Michael Karst]

Thank you for your feedback @Jenni.Merrifield.

These days there's an online petition for everything. I don't think Adobe really cares about online petitions. I think the most effective way to get their attention is to work through Adobe's own internal processes. Call Adobe and get your issue escalated past the frontline workers. Speak with someone who actually understands the issue (this may take a lot of time and patience). Make sure they open a ticket, investigate it and take action on it -- and keep following up with them.

I'm definitely not the first person to try shedding light on this. There are lots of great posts by @theDustinWilliam, @BryanCanning  and many others about this issue as well. Dealing with Adobe on this can be both discouraging and exhausting -- and it makes me go crazy sometimes just thinking about it!

I've been recording my interactions with Adobe on this forum in order to make it matter of public record. Feel free to use my notes and add your own voice to it. I've scoured forums and online articles for information on this matter, checked my credit card statements, researched the history of currency rates and Creative Cloud pricing, etc. I wanted to put some hard facts and numbers to this -- which clearly shows the absurdity and ignorance of Adobe's decision to completely ignore their Canadian customers. (Of course, this same issue affects customers in other countries as well -- being forced to pay in currencies that are not their own -- but for the purposes of this page, we're just dealing with Canadians being forced to pay in US dollars, for no good reason).

The most I can suggest to anyone who *must* pay for Adobe software (until Adobe fixes this issue, supposedly in 2018), is switch to an annual billing cycle. It won't cost you any more or any less, but at least you'll only have the suffer the currency exchange once a year instead of 12 times a year.

[CalintzX]

I wish to thank your very much for your efforts and for updating us on the issue.

Also, the issue with the old petitions is that people didn't really publicize them outside of the Adobe's website which almost nobody visit, and so they didn't get the "exposure" they deserved. No exposure = no incentive for a change. It's all about social medias and «social image» today.

A good example of this is the petition for the Sony alpha cameras, there is an issue that almost nobody were talking about... they'll eat the stars. The issue has been there for years, Sony didn't care. But someone did that petition (www.change.org/p/11859118/u/21723082) and it got articles/linked on important blogs, and the guy was motivated for updating too. Took about 3 months, and Sony announced an update for their cameras.

While I believe Adobe didn't have to care that much about their client's «opinion» some years ago, cause they were basically monopolistic... things change. Now Adobe is losing «sex appeal», they are late in many areas. New softwares came in, more specialized but really good at what they do (3D in illustrator/photoshop, really?), smaller, faster, more up to date UI, cheaper, etc. Just think about how many people switched to Sketch. And so, now they have to care, and too bad for them if they don't. More people might just switch if they aren't getting fair price.  Remember what happened to Quark once it was perceived as too expensive and outdated.

So anyway, if anyone got the motivation, I think the petition is still a good idea.

[Michael Karst]

Dear Canadian Adobe Customers,

I was just on the phone with Adobe this morning, airing my grievances about Adobe's lack of support for the Canadian dollar. I was personally assured in December 2016 that this had been added to the to-do list for some internal team and was assured again in September 2017 that Adobe was "aiming to offer Creative Cloud in Canadian currency in 2018". I have waited patiently for over a year and as of October 2018, there has still been no evidence of Adobe offering any such support. I am still waiting for a follow-up response from my contact at Adobe, so it remains to be seen if Adobe is still keeping to their end of the bargain.

After some extensive complaining, and after the Adobe rep on the phone kindly finished explaining the concept of international currency fluctuations to me (adding insult to injury), I was told that the problem lies in the fact that Adobe's payment platform treats Canada, Mexico and the US as one entity and that it's not possible to charge different currencies. Obviously, the fault lies with Adobe for setting up their payment system this way. Adobe's competitors don't seem to have a problem managing multiple currencies in North America.

I was eventually offered promotional pricing for one year. In lieu of Adobe actually fixing this problem before my next subscription renewal date, I opted to take the promotional pricing for US$29.99/month (instead of the regular price of US$52.99/month). Evidently, Adobe has raised the price of Creative Cloud (all apps) from US$49.99/month to US$52.99/month since my last billing cycle.

If you're like me, and you *must* pay for Creative Cloud because of work you do, I strongly recommend that you call Adobe to complain about their lack of support for the Canadian dollar and demand that they switch you to promotional pricing. If you pay for a one year license, then you will only suffer the currency conversion once a year instead of every month. You'll probably need to call back next year to negotiate the pricing again, but it's a significant difference. I would have paid US$635.88 + tax (or CAD$920.72 in Ontario, tax included), but with the promotional pricing, I am only paying US$359.88 + tax (or CAD$521.08 in Ontario, tax included).

If your subscription renewal date has already passed, you can probably still take advantage of this. Adobe refunded me the last two months remaining on my annual subscription from last year and simply started a new billing cycle with the new price point.

Until Adobe wakes up and stops dragging its feet, I think the best we can hope for is to force them to offer Canadians promotional pricing instead of full pricing.

This issue is not dead yet!

[Michael Karst]

OCTOBER 2018 UPDATE: According to my most recent correspondence with Adobe, adding support for the Canadian currency to their online store has been pushed to 2019. Yes, this stalling tactic by Adobe is very frustrating. The best we can probably hope for this year is to call Adobe at 1-888-833-6687 and negotiate lower pricing. Adobe reps will probably tell you they can only offer you 1 free month, but I was able to secure promotional pricing for the next 12 months on all apps (US$29.99/month, versus $52.99/month). Offering minimal discounts to unhappy customers is a standard tactic of most call centres. Keep pressing and escalating this issue. Your efforts could save you over $400 this year.

[Michael Karst]

UPDATE: I have recently heard back from Adobe on this issue and was told that they are aiming to offer Creative Cloud subscriptions priced in Canadian dollars in 2018. Let's hope that Adobe keeps their word and that their Canadian prices are fair and honest.

[djmakk]

Well, it's now 2018. Here's hoping they bring this soon.

[terry-lynnw39782954]

Looking at the Australian subscription (at the moment the CAD and AUD are close to par) shows that the exchange rate excuse is not valid.  The annual subscription for Australia is $144 which comes to $107 USD. The annual subscription in Canada is $119 USD which is $159 CAD. We are disadvantaged yet again. I have been tempted to buy the Australian subscription but held off hoping that the Canadian issue would be resolved.
Why does Adobe keep saying the questions have been answered? Providing a response with no real explanation or pathway to resolution is not an answer.

[TheLandOfDustin]

Thanks to everyone posting their experience with contacting Adobe! This is great work and appreciate the time you have taken to tell us your experience. I am hoping to use the power of people I know to do a Nationally-televised news report on this very issue. Adobe needs to hear loud and clear that they are being completely unfair to the creative professionals in Canada who rely on their software.

Again, when people choose to PAY for their software as opposed to doing a quick search on The Pirate Bay, but Adobe chooses to be unfair, they have to expect that their actions are helping to fuel software piracy. Period.

Let keep fighting Adobe.

[scrabbleship13]

I'm just as angry about this scam as all of you guys above.

What I don't understand though, is how can Adobe charge us HST on their product while also charging us in US dollars?

Any other online company (Amazon, etc) that charges HST also charges in CAD. I've never seen any other company collect Canadian taxes yet charge in American dollars. Surely this is the biggest scam of all.

I was under the impression if a company had a Canadian office, they had to charge HST. Seeing as Adobe has offices in Canada and are charging customers Canadian taxes, the "government won't let us" charge in USD doesn't hold up.

[Michael Karst]

You're absolutely right @scrabbleship13.

Adobe has no excuse to be charging Canadians in a foreign currency when they have offices in Ottawa and they charge HST on their products. Don't even bother asking their customer support reps about it -- by phone or on discussion boards -- they'll just give you scripted answers that are full of lies. If you speak to anyone at Adobe, you need to escalate the issue past the frontline workers. There are countless other companies in the US (Apple, Microsoft, Netflix, Dropbox, etc.) who sell subscription-based services across the border and none of them behave the way Adobe does. Considering how long Adobe has been doing business in Canada and how integral their products are to the creative market, you'd think they would act with a little more professionalism and respect towards their own customers than they are now.

I've since lost all respect for Adobe as a business.

[SteveBlacker]

This has irked me for a long time.  When I started with CC it was about $50 CAD per month, give or take a few cents.  Now it's over $75 per month.  I use CC at work (they pay for it), but still have my own CC account for personal and freelance work on the side, which I pay for.  I finally had enough and cancelled my account.  It's daylight robbery.

[brian7997]

How can a business operating in Canada, taking HST, not accept CAD as legal tender? I don't think this would be legal in The USA.

Is there someone in government that should get involved? Who should be contacted?

[djmakk]

Your basically right, New Zealand and Australia did that and they have it priced in their currency. It would help if our government stepped in, but there is enough precedent from other US  companies operating in Canada that price in CDN currency that Adobe should just follow suite.

[scrabbleship13]

Exactly! Netflix and Microsoft are two companies I can think of that charge HST but also bill in CAD, not USD.

Imagine if Amazon pulled this same shit Adobe is? I'm considering using PayPal to pay in order to avoid paying taxes.

[brian7997]

The problem is Adobe has a monopoly and they know it.  They think they hold all the cards. I just sent a email to my gov't rep.

See if we can apply some extra pressure.

[drewt93559622]

Its almost unbelievable how un professional Adobe is with their response to this issue.  I like lightroom a lot but won't be held ransom for exchange rate fluctuations, so until they offer it in Canadian dollars, they won't get my money or my company's money.

[tomg1220980]

I am so offended by Adobe's new "rental" model that I continue to use my full CS6 suite and have not upgraded.

I started by buying CS2 and bought each upgrade till they moved to the rental model which is $330 Canadian per year just for Photoshop. 

[feather005]

April 2019,

Upgraded to All Apps Account, then asked about CAD pricing.
"We don't have that option"

Can we start another online campaign, this is ridiculous. Who in billing can we email?
There is an office in Canada. How are they paying them? With USD? Are they paying CAD income tax? It doesn't make sense that you have a presence in another country but do not allow payments in their currency?

Not sure which government department this issue would fall under.

This is just frustrating.