Color Management - Embedded Images vs. Linked

[jethrodesign]

Hi, just need a little insight into how Illustrator handles color conversions & color management for images.

We typically use InDesign for anything to be output on press, keeping all master linked images as RGB, then converting everything to the final output device intent when making the print-ready PDF (e.g., PDF/X-4 w/ GRACoL 2006) to send to the printer. Easy & pretty standard.

But the current project requires us to use Illustrator, and the final ouput will be done overseas using rotogravure. And we believe that the printer may require our master Illustrator files rather than a print-ready PDF as we are accustomed to.

Current setup:

- File is set to CMYK color mode, with the printer's ouput profile assigned. There will be a mix of CMYK + 2-3 PMS spot colors on these files.

- Placed images are curerntly linked and were created, edited, & saved as Adobe RGB.

Questions:

- Will linked files retain their embedded profiles as InDesign does (our Color Settings are set to 'Preserve Embedded Profiles')?

- Bigger question, what happens if we embed those images? Are they automatically converted to the Working Space (or Document Space if different) using the Rendering Intent set in our Color Settings??

If we need to send master Illustrator files, it woud be simpler to embed images so things don't get lost. But need to know what would happen to the color so no surprises. We would probably prefer to allow the printer to do the final color conversions upon printing separations.

Thanks!

[Monika Gause]

Upon embedding, imahes will be converted to the working space (CMYK in your case)

As for linked images it's complicated. They of course stay in RGB and have their color profile attached. But when placing them you select what happens when the profile is different from your working RGB profile. But Illustrator doesn't remember that setting and ask every time you open the file. If your working profile is the same as the color profile, then it's not an issue. But if your use a differnet working profile, then you might be in trouble.

[meganchi]

I would recommend NOT embedding the images. Provide all linked images to the print provider in case they need to do additional icc color management. In Illustrator, if you go to File, then select "Package", it will save your file and linked images together so you don't have to look for them.

[jethrodesign]

Hi, thanks for the replies! 

< "Upon embedding, images will be converted to the working space (CMYK in your case)" >

- Do you know if it would favor the document space if it is different from the default working space? We've assigned the printer's profile to the document which is different from our default working space.

- Does it use the rendering intent listed in the Color Settings (e.g., Relative Colorimetric)?

I'm wondering if Illustrator would use a similar technique to converting images from their default working space (i.e., Adobe RGB) to the output intent (i.e, our printer's profile) in the same way as saving/exporting a PDF/X and choosing to convert to destination in that process? If the printer requests CMYK images, this would be an easier way to convert everything (and 'package' it) rather than opening each image, saving a CMYK alternate, relinking to that, and keeping track of everything. But we would just want to be sure it's doing it PROPERLY AND WELL.

< In Illustrator, if you go to File, then select "Package", it will save your file and linked images together so you don't have to look for them. >

- Is this something added to newer versions of Illustrator? We're still primarily using CS6, and that is not an option. That is the reason we were wondering about embedding images, just so nothing slips through the cracks and is forgotten. InDesign does the packaging well.

THANKS!

[jethrodesign]

Hi, I've been trying for a couple weeks now to speak with a support supervisor at Adobe to get definitive answers on these things. They keep saying they'll call, but never do. 

So one additional question in case anyone knows, as the files have been approved now and we need to send them to the printer very soon.

- If we do a 'Save As' on a file with linked RGB images, and our file & the Color Settings both set the printer's ICC profile as the CMYK color space with Relative Colorimetric as the rendering intent, and we choose 'Create PDF Compatible File', 'Include Linked Files', and 'Embed ICC Profiles' in the save options, would that convert all images to the proper output intent (per our Color Settings) at full resolution in a simlar fashion to how Acrobat does it when creating a PDF/X file (minus the resampling & compression you can do)??

If that works as we're assuming, and the printer requires native AI files, it seems like doing a 'Save As' like that would be a relative equivalent to saving out a PDF/X (with the color conversion happening in that process). We assume this might be especially true since we're saving a 'PDF Compatible' file. We know it probably won't pass a PDF/X preflight check, but might be essentially the same and may make it a bit safer for the printer (as long as the output profile they've sent us is good).

- Anyone have experience or knowledge with this to either confirm or reject these assumptions???

Thanks again!