Don't hold your breath for CS7....

[_scott__]

http://www.adobe.com/cc/letter.html

Seems there won't be a CS7 ever.

[W_J_T]

Nice posts JET.

JETalmage wrote:

So it's long past time for a change anyway.

Speaking of change, amazingly Adobe feels that they are changing the world.

http://www.adobe.com/cc/letter.html

Changing the world by changing Adobe.

Within Adobe, we have challenged our teams to make bold changes that serve the evolving needs of the creative community.

If only they could understand their own deficiencies and inadequacies, look past merely focusing on sales numbers and the quality of their offerings. That is the change Adobe needs to make, but it seems too bold for Adobe to actually do that at this point, it goes against their very nature and greed.

[Guest]

"serving the evolving needs of the creative community". In what way? The only needs being served are Adobe's.

[W_J_T]

Another must read for people found in a recent previous thread;

Adobe Creative Cloud:  Lopsided Legal Agreement. It is not pretty:

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2013/20130508_1a-Adobe-legal-agree ment.html

[PS: Posts are being deleted and censored left and right over in the creative cloud forum.]

[JETalmage]

Thanks for that link, W_J_T.

I particularly like this well-stated summary statement:

It shows an unmitigated contempt for customers as small-fry (“plenty more out there and we have 'em by the balls anyway”) to which no concessions need be made, with a very big hammer to get rid of unpleasant ones if need be...

JET

[Frank Heller]

I just read through this post. Near the bottom, I read this:

17. Advertising and Your Content.

You agree that Adobe may display advertisements adjacent to Your Content, and you agree that you are not entitled to any compensation.

The manner, mode, and extent of advertising or other revenue generating models pursued by Adobe on or in conjunction with the Services and/or Your Content are subject to change without specific notice to you.

Are they kidding? This is just nuts.

[_scott__]

Adobe wants US to work for THEM rather than us simply buying their product and the transaction being over.

[Kurt Gold]

Don't you embrace the phenomenal top new features of that new CC version, Scott ?

I for one am strongly impressed:

File packaging in 2013 – incredible

Unembed images in 2013 – unbelievable

Area and point type conversion – legendary

Images in brushes – Remember when Creature House Expression introduced that …

Touch Type tool – Well, that might be innovative

[_scott__]

No comment, Kurt.

I'm focusing on the marketing and sales model which doesn't have anything to do with the actual app.

[CarlosCanto]

hahaha, I love this type of posts Kurt, that's my kind of humor

[JETalmage]

I for one am strongly impressed: File packaging...Unembed images...Area and point type conversion...Images in brushes...

Yeah. Mind-numbing progress, huh? Like watching paint dry. Or looking for shooting stars.

On a cloudy night.

Under tree cover.

With the sleeping bag zipped up over your head.

Wearing sunglasses.

And getting sleepy.

So what kind of timeframe do you figure for other things that are similarly already decades-late to the game: User-defined ruler scales; dimension tools; connector lines; callouts; reliable snaps; accuracy beyond the lame point-based coordinate system; a revamp of the hideous selection scheme; a proper cutting tool; a proper object inspector...freakin' no-brainer live shape primitives, fercryin'outloud?

You guys keep those subscription payments coming...you've ot a long, long way to go.

😉

JET

[_scott__]

Good to see the petition now well over 10,0000 users:

http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-su...

[JETalmage]

Got an extra zero there, Scott. 😉

But yeah, I agree. There are no doubt many who will not sign it because it asks for personal address info.

JET

[_scott__]

oops.. yeah 10,000 not 10,0000 Too bad the DOJ petition isn't going as strong.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/ask-doj-investigate-adobe-systems-inc-recent-announcement-...

[MW Design]

Any valid petition seeks to validate the signers using real info and attempts to eliminate mulitple voting.

Really, there are scores of people that will never see the petition to make the choice whether to sign it or not.

I do note Adobe stock began to rise on the announcement and has steadily dropped since the 6th. If the backlash doesn't die out, who knows where the stock will end up...and Adobe's choices.

Mike

[MW Design]

Jet, btw...Xara has always offered a competitive upgrade. One has to contact them off the purchase page, but it is there. That is how I first made the purchase. And I used a long dead vector application (Professional Draw) to do so.

Mike

[W_J_T]

Who does Adobe send to say customers will love the software? Not the CEO, CIO, not a Technical Director, etc… but instead what Adobe always relies on more than anything else - Marketing.

http://venturebeat.com/2013/05/11/adobe-creative-cloud-interview/

Just another example of empty dribble wrapped in smoke and mirrors PR nonsense. How can this guy sleep at night believing the snake oil he is pedaling? Shame on Adobe and all it's representatives.

[JETalmage]

One need only read the headline:

Adobe exec: Creative Cloud complainers will love us once they try us

See? Already you're not a long-time customer; you're "a complainer."

JET

[DocPixel-BMW]

@JET - Wow! What can I say? Some really... REALLY!... great, well thought out posts! Hats off!

I specifically liked the one where you broke down the vector programs... and what's still broken in Illustrator.

I would like to add the program Krita.org to the list of programs to keep an eye on... even though it's not a vector but an image program.

The Transform Tool is pretty much what I have been asking for in PS and CorelPainter for like 10+ years!

It's hopefully developers like these, introducing new advanced tools and getting some awareness and funding for their efforts, that will also spur a Renaissance in graphic design tools. Please be kind and dismiss for a moment my "high horse" comments, and see it is quality tools that I want and only quality tools.

It would be "convenient" if my personal wishes would come true with CC eventually. However, you made so many good points, and brought back so many bad memories dealing with Illustrator's and Adobe's BS especially in regards to Freehand that I had truly suppressed because it was seriously frustrating...  I have no other alternative than to take a big step back and re-analyse this CC move.

Another petition at Petitions Whitehouse Org -

ask DOJ to investigate Adobe Systems, Inc. recent announcement to change its software license to sub...

Also, this extreme display of arrogance by Shantanu Narayen (Adobe CEO refuses to answer Australian pricing questions )

and him not being able to answer  a reasonable question... DOES NOT bolster any of my naive hopes for TRANSPASRENCY by this company. This video sickened me and actually tipped me to the other side of the line(!)

As I've said before, there needs to be some major changes in the executive offices... regardless of whether this new idea works or not. You've got Bean Counters, Smake Oil Salesman and Marketing Gurus running a technology company into the ground. I feel really bad for the engineers: how do they deal with these guys day in and day out! 

[JETalmage]

Jet, btw...Xara has always offered a competitive upgrade. One has to contact them...

I (and no doubt many others) have received generous side-grades from multiple software vendors from time to time. But being one-off concessions made at a sales rep's discretion, out of respect for the courtesy, I don't mention them online.

Most all businesses do things like that on occasion. I only consider it appropriate to mention advertised prices, and don't mind paying them when they're reasonable.

JET

[JETalmage]

"At Corel, we strongly believe in giving users the choice to purchase your software the way you want."

Other things I've noted about Corel over the years:

• Corel's development, marketing, and feature set doesn't act as if it's "ashamed" of certain vertical-market segments which Corel knows represent significant portions of its user base, like sign and embroidery shops and technical illustrators. In other words, Corel does a more effective job of broadening Draw's versatility for all its users. You can still use Draw to make a simple clip-art or dingbat font file, for example.
  
  Compare that to Illustrator's history, which (like all the others) is originally and historically overwhelmingly about offset print, with lately a handful of "me, too" (downright bizzarrely-implemented) web-centric features. You can kid yourself and call Illustrator's chronic and continued long list of missing no-brainer practical functionality "professional focus" if you what--but that's what you're doing: just kidding yourself, not fooling anyone actually familiar with the two programs. In many ways, Illustrator is the blunt crayon among a drawer full of accurate drawing pens.

• Corel's upgrade policy has been less restrictive (and less expensive) than Illustrator's, letting you upgrade from at least two versions back, often more.
• CorelDraw Graphics Suite ships with a plethora of added-value items including large font and clipart collections, a perfectly serviceable font management software (the only one I use these days), and other practical utilities.
• CorelDraw X6 actually shipped with a full-color, perfect-bound, hardcover user manual. How refreshing compared to the usual cheap-out these days.
• Corel's so-called Premium Membership essentially amounts to what some software vendors call a maintenance agreement; an optional annual fee which entitles you to upgrades to any new versions released so long as you have an active maintenance agreement.
  
  FileMaker, for example, does that. It makes perfect sense for a corporate workgroup, and for small-to-medium-size developers whose primary and ongoing function is FileMaker development; yet it constitutes no penalty to users and businesses who are just as serious ("professional") and quite skilled in their use of FileMaker, but carry individual licenses. Many graphics people (myself included), educators, medical field workers, and other creatives (many musicians, for example) consider FileMaker an absolutely essential mission-critical tool in their business (as do I). Yet a subscription based license would make no sense at all for many in such a braod base of professionals, and would not be tolerated.
  
  

JET

[W_J_T]

DocPixel-BMW wrote:

I actually came here to promote the great work that Astute Graphics is doing with their plugins for Illustrator.... watch the intro-video to their new plug-in Rasterino

http://www.astutegraphics.com/products/rasterino/

Just another shining example by a third party developer of Adobe's own lack of commitment to Illustrator and the innovation they themselves are not able to offer.

Great work by Astute Graphics however.

----------------------------

Speaking of Corel JET, I saw this in a thread over in the Creative Coud Forum:

Corel - Welcome CS Users:

http://www.corel.com/corel/pages/index.jsp?pgid=14900014

Corel is here to give you a choice. Check out our award-winning graphics, photo and video products below, discover helpful tips for making the switch, and learn about the many options Corel offers when it comes to purchasing your software.

Special upgrade pricing, just for you!

For a limited time, we're opening our upgrade path to users of Adobe Creative Suite, Photoshop standalone or Illustrator standalone (version CS4 or later). Simply buy the upgrade version of any Corel product below, show proof of your Adobe purchase and we'll send you a serial number. Offer expires Aug. 30, 2013, so take advantage now!

[JETalmage]

Speaking of Corel JET, I saw this in a thread over in the Creative Coud Forum:

Yep. As anticipated. Corel has always offered attractive side-grade offers. Every Illustrator user should take advantage of such offers. Expecially with Corel's, you get a lot of useful stuff in the deal (fonts, font manager, clipart, web page app, screen capture utility, vehicle templates...). Just the bundled add-ons are worth the side-grade price.

Those who hold a license to Illustrator by itself (as opposed to a CS bundle) should especially look into it. The side-grade deal mentions CS; I don't know what the policy would be for a standalone Illustrator licence. But if it's available, one would get Draw, the stuff mentioned above, and also gain a good raster imaging program (PhotoPaint) that makes a perfectly viable alternative to Photoshop.

Moreover, if you actually take the time to use another drawing program, you gain the advantage of not being so dang captive to a single vendor, and stop feeling so emotionally/defensively dependent. Lateraling from one Bezier drawing program to another is really not that difficult. And over time, you become able to speak intelligently when comparing programs, since you've actually touched more than one. (What a concept!)

Some here might be interested in this quote from Corel.com, too:

"Historically, the justification for creating a suitable Mac OS version of CorelDRAW Graphics Suite and other products, did not warrant the investment required. Adobe's recent announcement will put the discussion back on the table. Getting a Mac OS native product to the market will take time and significant effort. We will continue to review our options..." [Emphasis mine.]

Personally, I actually hope Corel does not devote the necessary development time to another Mac OS port. There's the emulation route for those who are just dogmatically married to Mac OS only; and I'd much rather see a ressurrection of common-sense, practical, and accuate 2D drawing functional innovation.

Either way, I take the mere conversation as hopeful indication of life in this important graphics segment which has been set back decades by Illustrator's market share dominance and slothful development pace.

Don't overlook Canvas, either. Deneba was acquired a few years ago by ACD, but that venerable program has been continually developed, and is still a strong and well-laid-out drawing program. I actually consider its Bezier path drawing interface to be the best of the current bunch (second only to FreeHand's). It's a delight to use. More straightforward and intuitive to learn your way around because it's less "cutesy/clever" (or downright bizzare) in its organization. And it's packed with practical features. Its marketing emphasizes technical illustration largely because of its accuracy advantages, and its relation to Deneba CAD, but don't be fooled by that; it's every bit as general-purpose as Illustrator and the rest.

Just one "small" example: Have you ever considered how useful it is to have the choice to see/edit an object's dimensions relative to its current rotation...or to its unrotated bounds, and switch between the two at will? To me, that one praticality alone is worth all of Illustrator's Warp/Twirl/Pucker/Bloat/Scallop/Crystalize/Wrinkle finger-painting junk.

JET

[John Stanowski]

I would buy a Mac version of Corel Draw in a second! I used it before I had to switch over to the Mac. I made the most amazing stuff when I used it. Corel became an extension of my hands and it was so easy to create. When I had to switch to Illustrator it was almost like my hand became thickly bandaged up. I "lost something" when I switched. I haven't created anywhere near like I used to when I used Corel. I really think I stopped being a vector illustrator when I left Corel, even though I've had five years to get to know Illustrator.

[Guest]

I am interested in Canvas. I have an earlier version which works on a Mac, but I did not use it much, so I'll go back a couple of OS (I think it will work on Leopard or Snow Leopard) in order to go forward. I  haven't checked the version I own yet but V14 ( for PCs only) does have a charting function.

I'd be really happy if Canvas and Corel go back to the Mac because I'd buy the latest versions if they do. It is a shame they stopped doing Mac versions but then Mac people were hypnotised with Illustrator and if they preferred FreeHand, sadly it was swallowed by Adobe. Not enough Mac people were interested in Canvas and Corel (though I understand the Mac Corel version were prone to frequent crashes). Products which get ignored fade away. Note that Adobe.

Also have to check if both or either support Pantone. I am a print specialist and any other media I do is done outside of Adobe products.

For DTP it looks like Quark again, I'll have to check out their latest version too (I have 7.5) but my experience with Quark was very poor customer service, and unbelievably lousy table function.

[MW Design]

CD has Pantone support, James. As does Xara Designer Pro, etc.

I too am mainly in print media. As an aside, for layout work, it is hard to beat Serif's PagePlus (new version out soon). It is an easy pill to swallow cost-wise if one pays full price. But if one installs the free version, there is a screen when exiting that usually offers a discount. It's main issue is running headers/footers. I overcome that with multiple master pages when doing books. Main issue is when doing catalogs. But ID CS6 will live a long time on this computer.

I likely will take Quark up on their upgrade from any previous version offer they have. I have seen an increase in XML catalogs and repurposing to ePub of late and I'll give Quark another shot.

It is hard to imagine Quark having worse CS than Adobe. For both one is on their own--along with leaning heavily upon the user community. Forums have become these company's support service over the years.

Mike