Overprint Layers

[cuckooo123]

Hi.  I have a problem.  In the last 2 weeks, I've had 5 different logos (all .ai files, from 3 different, unassociated clients) where (seemingly) random layers are set to overprint. It's too conincidental to be a designer error at the source, so suspect its being caused at my end somehow(!?).  I've already had one print job go wrong (client signed off proof without noticing the error) and other print jobs currently on press (uh-oh!) … so quite concerning!! Any thoughts anyone as to the cause, and a solution (beyond manually reviewing every layer in every logo I recieve hereafter)? Thanks, Barn

[CarlosCanto]

check this thread for a similar questions and possible solution

https://community.adobe.com/t5/illustrator-discussions/script-to-detect-overprint-within-a-document/...

[cuckooo123]

Thanks, will explore this to help indentify problems.  I'm most interested in how/why the situation is arising though … something must be causing it.

[Monika Gause]

Did you inspect those files directly after they have been delivered to you? And was the overprint already inside of them?

[cuckooo123]

Initially they were 'placed' into an Indesign file, and then the problem (on the first job) not discoverd until £1000 worth of print arrived. On subequent jobs (having paid more attention during a latter artworking stage) the same problem has been caught (with different logos).  If I open all the original Illustrator files (as originally supplied by clients), then the overprint can be seen to be applied to some layers.  Interestingly, if I drop those same original .ai files directly into Acrobat Pro, it immediately highlights that the file contains 'overprint' within the 'Print Production/Output Preview' pane, suggesting the overprint setting is not getting automatically, or randomly, applied within Illustrator at my end, but exists as a feature already within the original file (I would suggest!?).  So I'm left wondering why multiple (disassociated) designers would be applying overprint to select layers within their logo files (it's a pretty strange thing to do), and why they've all arrived with me at the same time (from difference sources). I haven't seen anyone else reporting the same problem.

[Monika Gause]

People could have worked on black versions of the logo (which might overprint). They didn't notice and just changed the colors.

[cuckooo123]

Yeah, I'd wondered about that (black defaults as overprint and is then changed) … whilst some of the logos are pretty low budget (junior designer level where you might expect an error), others are from very well known mega-corps (high budget sophisticated professional brand assets), and have been distributed far and wide (I assume without an issue … until they hit my desk!!!? … I'll have to inquire!).

[cuckooo123]

OK … so today I've opened a complex floor plan (a file I've previously worked on without any knowledge of an overprint issue … which isn't to say 100% there wasn't one … but I don't think so).  Once opened, I've done a 'Select All' and the Attributes panel highlights that some items have 'overprint' applied (both 'Overprint Fill and Overprint Stroke have a dash in the box to indicate 'some layers' have it applied).  If I click both these boxes, the dash becomes a tick (so now everything has overprint applied).  Now I click again on each box to switch overprint off for all elements on the page.  I deselect all objects, then 'select all' again, only for the dash to reappear indicating overprint is back on, on some objects.  Any thoughts on what would cause that?  I've stripped the file down to make much more simple, and recorded my screen to demostrate (see attached).

[Monika Gause]

Can you upload that AI file to Dropbox or the like?

[cuckooo123]

Yes, here's a link (also contains the test file re. my latter post below):

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1lvy6n3orwnv87r/AADXP3wg9tBFaMJ7hQpd4gNGa?dl=0

[cuckooo123]

Hiya … did you get a chance to look at this? … I've got artwork piling up waiting to go to print, and more and more related problems stacking up as I examine each file and discover the next weirdity (for example, I've got a different job with 6 black logos overprinting a coloured photo. All overprint except one, which is knocking out … but nothing obvious to suggest why!(?).

[Monika Gause · Accepted solution]

Sorry for answering so late.

So far the display in the Attributes panel is normal. When there is no fill on the object, there is a strikethrough.

In your situation this is getting so difficult to check, because your black is a muddy black. It's been set up in RGB. Same goes for the color objects.  So usually for check the overprint you could just turn off the black (or other single inks) in the Separations panel and you know whether it will overprint. Overprinting objects that have more than one single ink applied is usually problematic (which might be why you are asking about this in the first place). Could it be that the artwork originated in a CAD application? Because that would somewhat explain the swatches setup in RGB.

I'm not fully updated about issues in Acrobat. So there may be some warnings in Acrobat that just appear without a reason and I would recommend that you ask about them in the Acrobat forum.

In Illustrator you could use the Astute Graphics plugin InkQuest. It offers an Overprint preview that highlights overprinting objects:

You could also use the free plugin Select Menu to select just the strokes objects and just the filled objects and then check the overprint separately:

[cuckooo123]

Hi Monika … thanks for coming back to me, and for taking a look.  Yes, the floorplan is originally from CAD (muddy black) … and (as you say) it highlights the difficulty I'm facing in other complex (colour rich) logos/illustrations etc. where overprint appears to be applied to some random layers.  Thanks for highlighting the 2 plugins, I'll explore these (at least for identifying problems areas).  Being able to group select (stroke or fill objects only) whilst really useful (good to know this exists), won't solve the problem of applying overprint to all, only to reselect and discover its turned itself off again (as per my 'squares' file).  All massively problematic.  Yesterday I had a situation where 5x black (100% K) were overprinted (as desired), but one was randomly knocking out the image behind (once brought into Indesign).  On inspection, and playing with the 'Edit/Edit Colours/Overprint Black' feature, I got a message saying the selected object wasn't 100% black (it was!).  I ditched the colour from the palette and create a new one, applied this, and then it was happy!! It could be user-error on my part, but I think there's a bug in the system.  I will see what today's jobs present.

[Monika Gause]

The problem with overprinting is, that it will not work as you thing it does when confronted with other than pure inks. So the problem probably is just that. And you will need to fix the color definitions.

[cuckooo123]

Hi Monika … I agree … I don't want to be using overprint.  I'd be very happy for nothing (within Illustrator) to overprint.  Illustrator appears to be applying the setting to random layers (as per my original post).  I'm just trying to identify the layers where it's turned on and turn it off. Within Illustrator, when I do this, it comes back on (as per my video demostration). This is the problem (possible software bug) I'm reporting (as per my video with the 6 coloured squares).

[Monika Gause]

So here is my test with your file and I can't see an issue. I've put it on a spot color rectangle in InDesign and nothing overprints there: https://youtu.be/1ZcfQVVZmNo 

[cuckooo123]

Hi Monika … thanks for the video (and your time generally).  I see this worked as expected.  I can mimick the same this end and it's working well (today!).  I've just installed the 'Select Menu' plugin which seems really good … I suspect this will be a great aid identifying future instances.  I've got a better understanding now of the dash symbol in the overprint (fill/stroke) 'tick boxes' … I'd previously understood a dash to mean 'some items selected have function applied' … I now understand it can mean some items selected don't have functionality for the function (which is subtley difference, but significant in this case). I'm still unclear why I'm receiving mutliple logos with overprint within them (I've been designing for 24 years without a problem and had 5 instances within last few weeks, each from different suppliers).  I will continue to monitor the situation.  Thank you so much for your time and assistance  🙂

[Monika Gause]

You're welcome.

Generally this can happen when people export something from some other application. You'll never know what you get then. If that other app gets an update, anything might change as well.

Also: something might have gone corrupted in Illustrator's preferences. So this is one thing you could try as well as soon as you think that something fishy is going on. To reset the preferences, you can quit Illustrator and then rename the preferences folder. Instead it doesn't change the fishy thing, then you can revert to the old preferences and search for the cause in other places.

[cuckooo123]

I've done a little test.  When I select an object with a fill (and no stroke), the fill shows as 'no overprint', but the grayed-out 'overprint stroke' has a dash.  When I select an object with a stroke (and no fill), the stroke shows as 'no overprint', but the grayed-out fill shows a dash.  Select both objects and both 'overprint fill' and 'overprint stroke' illuminate (i.e. can be edited), both with a dash, suggesting one of the elements has overprint applied, when it fact it isn't.  However, if I now edit these (turn both on or off), when I deselect and reselect, it defaults to a dash, making it very unclear if there genuinely is an overprint applied or not.  Am I doing something wrong or misunderstanding the function somehow?  (see attached video).

[CarlosCanto]

you could use the script to troubleshoot, check the original files to make sure there's no overprint, then start making your usual changes one at the time to see if something is setting overprint unintentionally.