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Janus Bahs Jacquet
Inspiring
June 6, 2023
Answered

Accurately sorting Polytonic Greek paragraphs

  • June 6, 2023
  • 3 replies
  • 694 views

For paragraph sorting, I generally use the language-aware paragraph sorter which @Peter Kahrel made many years ago, and which mostly works well.

 

For Polytonic Greek, however, it fails. There is no built-in sort order for Polytonic Greek, so I’ve added my own:

 

0123456789 Α[ΆἈἉἊἋἌἍἎἏᾈᾉᾊᾋᾌᾍᾎᾏ]ΒΓΔΕ[ΈἘἙἚἛἜἝ]ΖΗ[ΉἨἩἪἫἬἭἮἯᾘᾙᾚᾛᾜᾝᾞᾟῊΉῌ]ΘΙ[ΊΪἸἹἺἻἼἽἾἿῘῙῚΊ]ΚΛΜΝΞΟ[ΌὈὉὊὋὌὍῸΌ]ΠΡΣΤ[ΥὙὛὝὟῨῩῪΎ]ΎΦΧΨΩ[ΏὨὩὪὫὬὭὮὯᾨᾩᾪᾫᾬᾭᾮᾯῺΏῼ]ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZÆØÅ

 

Note the plethora of accented vowel variant in square brackets after each base vowel. As far as I understand the instructions on the page linked to above, this is how I should indicate that diacritics should be ignored.

 

Unfortunately, it doesn’t work: all accented vowels just end up at the end of the list (in seemingly random order). If I remove the brackets, it sort-of-kind-of works, in that accented vowels are then at least ordered with the base vowel instead of at the end of the alphabet – but they’re still treated as a separate letter, so a sequence like (correctly sorted) ἑβή - ἔξα - εὐνοῖα - ἐώρων ends up as εὐνοῖα - ἐώρων - ἑβη - ἔξα.

 

Am I doing something wrong here, or does the script just not work properly for Polytonic Greek? And if it doesn’t, is there a better way to sort Polytonic Greek paragraphs while maintaining formatting?

This topic has been closed for replies.
Correct answer Peter Kahrel

 

@Janus Bahs Jacquet 

The problem was that I never added the Greek diacritics. That's now fixed (the update is on the web). There's still a strange problem with some characters. Some accented lower-case upsilons and iotas aren't converted properly (yet), you may still see some mishaps there. I haven't yet figured out the correct mapping.

 

There's an error in your sort-order string:

 

[ΥὙὛὝὟῨῩῪΎ]Ύ

should be

Υ[ΥὙὛὝὟῨῩῪΎΎ]

3 replies

Participant
December 10, 2024

Hello there, I am interested in adding Greek polytonic menu language in indesign menu. Any ideas? 

Thank you in advance!

 

Bringing Branding to Life!
Peter Kahrel
Community Expert
Community Expert
December 10, 2024

This isn't related to sorting, is it? Please start a new topic.

Peter Kahrel
Community Expert
Peter KahrelCommunity ExpertCorrect answer
Community Expert
June 7, 2023

 

@Janus Bahs Jacquet 

The problem was that I never added the Greek diacritics. That's now fixed (the update is on the web). There's still a strange problem with some characters. Some accented lower-case upsilons and iotas aren't converted properly (yet), you may still see some mishaps there. I haven't yet figured out the correct mapping.

 

There's an error in your sort-order string:

 

[ΥὙὛὝὟῨῩῪΎ]Ύ

should be

Υ[ΥὙὛὝὟῨῩῪΎΎ]

Janus Bahs Jacquet
Inspiring
June 7, 2023

Ah, that explains it! New version tested, and I can confirm it now sorts correctly; I didn’t have any accented lowercase iotas or ypsilons (ypsila?) that didn’t work in the sample I tested on. (And good catch on the sort-order string – something must have gone awry there.)

 

I was not aware of Marc’s more advanced script, but I just downloaded it and that works perfectly too.

Peter Kahrel
Community Expert
Community Expert
June 7, 2023

I'll take a look. Meanwhile, did you try Marc Autret's script?

https://www.indiscripts.com/post/2020/06/introducing-smart-sort-for-indesign-cc-cs