Align numbers in a numbered list (was "numbers alinged")

[Hendy374084080dng]

how can I get the words after '10' aligned?

[pixxxelschubser]

Are you already using a tab in the numbering section of your paragraph style?

[Hendy374084080dng]

yes.

[pixxxelschubser]

Which settings?

[Barb Binder]

In L-to-R text, we put a tab on both sides of the auto-number, and then set two tab stops: the first is decimal- or right-aligned, the second is left aligned. I haven't had my coffee yet, so can't quite articulate this for R-to-Left text, but it will be the same concept. 😉 I'll get my coffee and swing back in case you need clarification. 

See https://www.rockymountaintraining.com/adobe-indesign-aligning-punctuation-in-numbered-lists/.

~Barb

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Actually, Barb, that won't work unless I'm missing something. ID doesn't allow a tab as a the first character in a numbering string. This is a perennial annoyance for me.

The only good way to align numbering I can find is to use en-spaces for the (definitions of the) single-digit items.

I find it interesting/perplexing that the "number alignment" setting only kinda-sorta addresses this. It seems as if aligning the numbers to the right would produce that square alignment, but it only sort of halfway changes the single-digit position—

"Left"

"Right"

I've never found any very good use for this alignment setting, since most results you actually want need that trickery in the numbering setup and spacing/tab settings.

[Joel Cherney]

I'm pretty sure, Barb, that you can just swap the terms:

[...] the first is decimal- or left-aligned, the second is right aligned.

As far as the "Number or Bullet Position" dropdown in the parastyle, I find it much more useful than James. I wonder if this is another area, like alignment around text variables, where the World-Ready Composer handles stuff much differently than the Adobe Paragraph Composer. This doesn't look halfway aligned to me: 

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

None of the built-in options that should do this simple alignment seem to work, to the point where even the Creative site has several wonky workarounds. (All of the features seem to sort of "work halfway" as in my example.)

I feel that I'm missing something, or perhaps that something has changed, but it's a real PITA to just line up numbering when the number of digits varies, when it should be all but default/automatic.

[Joel Cherney]

I was going to disagree with you until I realized that my technique includes the step "Now use the tab ruler to move the margin to which the numerals are aligned towards the body text, so that the numbering is entirely outside the margin as definied in the Paragraph panel."  I guess that fits under the "wonky" heading just fine, when I think about it. 

(This kind of thing is one of the reasons that I occasionally advise my clients "Just leave it in Word/Framemaker/Arbortext/etc; the advantages of moving this project into InDesign are outweighed by the multi-level auto-numbering hassles we'd encounter". )

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Okay. I think I figured out the issue here — after my post below, and after ceasing to be thrown by the RTL example above. It is, of course, as you show, all dependent on the InDesign negative-indent first-line setting.

IF a left indent of suitable depth is specified, AND a first-line negative indent of lesser or equal depth is specified.... it all works more or less as envisioned, including how the Left-Center-Right setting acts on the number position. I (and maybe low-caff Barb) were overlooking the need to set that standard offset, which AFAIK is unique to InDesign but is hardly a secret or rarely used.

So, just to be redundant, sum up and outline: For list numbering that aligns right, on the decimal, paren or just space between the number and list item—

• Set a Left Indent of about 2X the expected number depth (say 3pc);
• Set a First Line Indent of equal but somewhat smaller negative value (-1pc);
• Set the Alignment to Right.

And gosharoonie, it works. 😛

[Barb Binder]

Well, I'm a menace behind a keyboard pre-coffee. I first expained how to do it in FrameMaker (leading tab), and then posted the link to handle it in InDesign.  

Joel, is there a R-to-L equivalent of this process in InDesign?

~Barb

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Ha! Well, I question your posts only with the greatest caution, but I've tripped over that "use two tabs" advice in too many places where the posters didn't seem to realize it doesn't work (in ID).

So, there does seem to be a solution in RTL, but in LTR, any numbered list that crosses from 9 to 10 needs some kind of manually-adjusted workaround, multiple styles, or borderline hack to work — right? I'm not missing anything here?

And while Joel seems to have gotten good results from the positioning option, I find it so awkward (in LTR, at least) that I can't quite figure out what it's supposed to be doing, in any useful sense.

All so weird. Most shortcomings in ID are sort of obvious as to cause or functional choice or limitation; this glitch just seems to have fallen through a very big crack in operational concept.

[Joel Cherney]

Joel, is there a R-to-L equivalent of this process in InDesign?

Turns out there's not! I was quite surprised. I can simulate the effect you're creating by dragging bits around on the tab ruler, or by specifying right indent and negative first line indent in the Indents and Spacing area, but in the Bullets and Numbering section...

... the "Left Indent" value really ought to turn into a "Right Indent" value when working with RTL paragraph direction.