Anchored text frame as header?

[keithconover]

I decided there was a better way to do something and now I've created a mess for myself. At the end of sections of my textbook, I have Important Points boxes:

Note that there is an anchored text frame at the top, overyling the top of the main text frame. Some of my Important Points boxes need to continue on the next page. I'd been manually copying and manually cutting and pasting between the two (or three) Important Point boxes, so the second one would look like this:

Note that this header box text frame is in the same place, but needs to be longer (manually adjusted) and to say 2/2 rather than 1/2. I have an Object Style for both the tinted big text frame and the header text frame, and the header text frame is linked to the main tinted text frame. Originally I was manually copying the main text frame to a second frame and manually cutting and pasting text to get the Important Points text to appropriately divide the text between the two big tinted text frames. But tonight I got the bright idea that I should just link the two (or three) text frames and let the text flow where it will. I found that I had anchored the header to the text in the big tinted text box and had to change this to link it to the big tinted text frame to get it to repeat properly.

I figure someone does this kind of thing all the time and may have some best practices to recommend. Especially when something like this happens:

[Eugene Tyson]

Just to confirm you have 

• A tinted text frame containing the Important Points text
• A small header text frame (e.g. “Important Points 1/2”)
• That header is anchored to text inside the tinted frame
• The tinted frames are threaded across pages

This is creating 3 problems:

1. Anchored objects belong to text, not frames

Even if you anchor “to the frame”, it’s still technically anchored to a text position.

When text reflows -  oversets - jumps to the next frame…the anchored header may:

• move to the wrong page
• stack on top of itself
• appear mid-column
• vanish or overlap (your last screenshot)

This is expected behaviour, not a bug.

2. Anchored headers don’t “know” about continuation

An anchored object - has no concept of 1/2, 2/2 - doesn’t know if it’s the first or continuation frame - can’t automatically resize per frame

So you’re fighting the layout engine instead of using it.

3. Threaded frames + anchored frames = fragile

As soon as you thread frames, anchored objects are at the mercy of reflow. That’s why your “idea” worked until it didn’t.

What I'd look into
Use a Paragraph Rule + GREP/Nested Style (no header frame at all)

If the header always sits at the top of the tinted box, don’t make it a separate frame.

How it works

First paragraph = “Important Points”

Apply:

Paragraph Rule Above (for the tinted bar)

GREP/Nested Character Style (for the label text)

Keep Options (optional but if you want to start at top of every page or keep with the pink box etc.)

Let the text flow naturally - No anchoring - No overlap - Flows perfectly across pages - Zero manual resizing

This might be a limitation but maybe you won't get automatic “1/2, 2/2” numbering without scripting

How are textbooks and manuals are normally built?

Unanchored header frame on the Parent (Master) page

If the header must be a separate frame:

• Put the header frame on the Parent page
• Position it relative to the tinted frame
• Use separate object styles:
• “Important Points – Start”
• “Important Points – Continued”

Then:

Page 1 uses the “Start” style

Continuation pages switch to “Continued”

• Stable
• Predictable
• No reflow chaos

• Still manual 1/2, 2/2 changes
• Requires discipline when adding pages

What I'd avoid in your current setup

• Anchoring headers to flowing text
• Threading frames and anchoring headers
• Expecting anchored objects to behave like running headers
• This combination is why you’re seeing overlaps and jumps.

The “1/2, 2/2” numbering

I don't think InDesign can detect “This is the second frame of a threaded object”,  possible maybe with a script.

What are the alternatives?

• Manual text
• Duplicate styles (Start / Continued)
• Script (possible, but custom)
• Accept no fractions and just say “Important Points (continued)”

Most publishers choose the last one.

What would be my preference?

Remove all anchored header frames (I have a script that an unanchor all objects in a document if you want it)

Make headers > Paragraph rule + nested style or Parent-page frame (not anchored)

Tinted text frames thread normally

Use:

“Important Points”

“Important Points (continued)”

Can you perhaps give a bit more info:

Do these boxes ever start mid-page?

Are you open to dropping 1/2, 2/2?

[keithconover]

Thanks for your time and your expertise, Eugene!

The whole thing started when I saw a textbook with such "Important Points" with a header in a separate frame like what I posted and decided to do something similar.

Most of them fit on one page, and only a few go more than one page, so automation is not so important for this.

I should have known better; this was my cognitive error. I KNEW that anchored objects are anchored to TEXT, but like a magpie attracted to a shiny object I somehow deluded myself that if I POSITIONED my anchored header relative to the main text frame that somehow ANCHORED it there. This was in passing as I was deciding to let text flow between those Important Points text frames to "automate" this to some degree if I have to edit the text in the main Important Points text frame. And I'm OK with manually adjusting the text in those headers rather than specifying the size in a style. Each header text frame needs to be manually adjusted in size as the size depends on the length of the title (or abbreviated title) of the section to which they refer.

Now that you've pointed out the error of my ways (as well as explaining how to automate something similar which I hope will help someone else at some point) I'm going to continue to kludge as follows. If I need an Important Points text frame to continue onto another page:

• Make sure that the header text frame is anchored to some text roughly in the center of the page; if needed, select the HEADER text frame, cut it, and paste it in the middle of the MAIN text frame, so it appears with a thick light blue dashed line, thusly:
•  
• This allows some expansion and contraction of the threaded text without the header text frame disappearing. 
• Select and copy the Important Points text frame (second or more likely first Important Points text frame) and paste on the next page.
• Delete all of the text in the new Important Points text frame (which will delete the anchored header as well, that's OK)
• Thread the overflowing text from the previous Important Points text frame to the new Important Points text frame
• Copy the Important Points HEADER text frame from the previous Important Points text frame.
• Paste the copied Important Points HEADER text frame somewhere in the middle (or if a small amount of text overflow, the end) of the text in the new Important Points text frame
• Voilà! Just have to edit the text in the header text frames to say "2/2" or "3/2" and I'm done.

Kludgy but works, and without need to automate.