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Arrows switched around on toolbar?

Explorer ,
Nov 08, 2021 Nov 08, 2021

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Usually the top arrow is solid black, for grabbing and moving, and the second arrow is white for grabbing and moving photos inside a picture box for example. Did they get switched around in 2022 InDesign? Now the grab arrow is white, and the move objects inside is black? Am I nuts?

 

Screen Shot 2021-11-08 at 5.06.21 PM.png

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 08, 2021 Nov 08, 2021

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Edit > Preferences > Interface > Appearance > choose the light gray appearance.

I cannot answer your second question. Insufficient data.

Mike Witherell

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 08, 2021 Nov 08, 2021

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The Selection tool (the top arrow) is now always the solid arrow; the Direct Selection tool is now always the hollow arrow.

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Explorer ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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But not in Illustrator? They switched it in InDesign but not in their sister software?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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The Illustrator team [sometimes] takes forever to catch up with ID and PS.

A few things that come to mind off the top of my head:

  • although we can do it now, double-clicking on a layer to rename it wasn't available for some time.
  • you still can't right-click on layers,
  • spring-loaded tools,
  • birds-eye view.

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Explorer ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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It's not the interface; have been using this interface for a couple of years and never any issues. It's the upgrade.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 08, 2021 Nov 08, 2021

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You're not crazy, it's just a challenging icon design for the dark UI. Maybe the thinking is that the lighter arrow stands out more in the darker toolbar, but you're right that it doesn't match the actual cursor.


— Adobe Certified Expert & Instructor at Noble Desktop | Web Developer, Designer, InDesign Scriptor

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Explorer ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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No, I have been using the dark interface for a couple of years. It's not that.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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You're right. I just looked back at a screenshot of an older version and the top arrow was dark and bottom arrow was light. It looks like a mistake by Adobe. Maybe it has to do with the new UI Scaling they added.


— Adobe Certified Expert & Instructor at Noble Desktop | Web Developer, Designer, InDesign Scriptor

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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It's not a mistake. It's a correction.

Solid and hollow have indeed replaced black and white for the selection and direct selection tools.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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The toolbar icon does not match and actual cursor (it's opposite), and someone is confused. In UI design, that is a mistake. Just because you can explain a reasoning does not make it good user-centered design.

 

It's not as simple as solid vs hollow... because both of the actual cursors have outlines! The black fill arrow has a white outline, and the light gray fill (used to be white) has a black and white double outline. Depending on the background you may not always see all those outlines, but sometimes you do.

 

Adobe should make the toolbar icon match the overall feel of the actual cursor when the primary difference is black vs light gray. That's how they had prevoiusly done it! I think this could be an accident when updating the app, but if not... it's a step in the wrong direction.


— Adobe Certified Expert & Instructor at Noble Desktop | Web Developer, Designer, InDesign Scriptor

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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I'm just messenger. Take it up with decision makers. I don't use the dark UI for InDesign so I'm not really effect, but I certainly understand the confusion.

You already know this, but for those that don't, do not report this as a bug. It will get dismisses as "as designed."

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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It makes sense to me if I think of the hollow arrow (the direct selection tool) letting the background show through on the toolbar. On screen, the Selection tool is solid, and the Direct Selection tool is "hollow" (but doesn't let the background show through). The keyboard shortcuts are the same and the tool positions are the same, so I don't really care what they look like. 

image.pngimage.png

IMO, the biggest problem is that Illustrator did not follow suite (but no surprise there...), and Photoshop to some extent (although those tools are not used as much). 

 

Going on the assumption that Adobe isn't going to change the interface unless they get a reasonable amount of user feedback, the "old" method must have been causing confusion for some. OR, my other hypothesis is that changes are made so the interface department can keep their jobs... 

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Explorer ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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Thank you. I have always thought of the arrows as black and white. I started using this software so long ago. So instintively I want to click on the black arrrow, which is now the "hollow" arrow, and now is second. I flip between InDesign and Illustrator constantly, and now is and extra second everytime because it's changed.

 

Like when they decided Photoshop didn't need SHIFT to make scaling proportional, but left it unchanged on the rest of their software. 

 

So stoopid. 

 

how do one complain to Adobe?

 

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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I've referred to the tools as black arrow and white arrow for decades. Going to have to Rekall Inc. and have my memories adjusted...

 

Think of the Selection tool as the moVe tool to remember the keyboard shortcut (v).

Think of the Direct Selection tool as the Art tool to remember the keyboard shortcut (a).

 

I feel your pain about the shift in Photoshop's use of the Shift key too.

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Explorer ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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Thanks for the info; I wonder why they don't think "InDesign users may use Illustrator, let's make the tools and behaviors similar".....

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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Different programming teams (probably competing for a finite amount of money). 
At some point, Adobe corporate will put their foot down and say "make it so".

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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Bartender! I'll have what he's having.

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Participant ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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I don't think I've used my mouse to select a tool in 20 yrs. Utilize the keyboard shortcuts and your life will be so much happier. 😄

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Explorer ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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I hear the dark vs light, but I simply think it's a mistake from Adobe on the interface. The messed up. 

 

Here is the Illustrator toolbar for 2022:

 

Screen Shot 2021-11-09 at 8.23.53 AM.png

 

 

And InDesign:

Screen Shot 2021-11-08 at 5.06.21 PM.png

 

Illustrator works as usual, Forst arrow (black) for moving, second arrow (white) for moving the nodes of objects. In Design is now opposite. Turns out I am not nuts!

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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Honestly, it wouldn't be a big deal if Illustrator was the same way... they really should match each other

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 24, 2021 Nov 24, 2021

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Adobe please fix this. Lots of designers work with Illustrator and InDesign at the same time, this is very confusing!

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 24, 2021 Nov 24, 2021

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Hi Farm402,

there is nothing broken here. There is one issue fixed with this change: now we have consistency with other tools in InDesign. That Illustrator and PhotoShop did not follow is a different thing.

 

Top row is InDesign 2021, bottom one is InDesign 2022:

 

TopRow2021-BottomRow2022.PNG

Have an eye on the Page Tool that did not change between the two versions. Especially look at the little arrow inside the Page Tool. The big brothers "Selection" and consequently "Direct Selection" now follow the same scheme "solid" and "hollow".

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 24, 2021 Nov 24, 2021

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I get your point, but the consistency within the Adobe family is an important part. With all due respect but are you guys not talking to each other? You are selling the apps as a bundle, so there should be a smooth workflow using them at the same time.

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Explorer ,
Nov 24, 2021 Nov 24, 2021

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Thank you for the screenshots; but in the Dark mode, it did change. The top arrow was "black" inside and now it's solid white. The arrow below used to be white filled and now it's black filled. In your ID 2022 comparing  dark and light modes side to side, I see what you are saying, they made the top "solid" and the bottow "outlined", but I (and apparently a lot of users), don't see them that way but rather identifying the color of the fill. I haven't used the light theme in years, I can't compare it in my brain. All I know is that now the arrows "look" like they have been switched around. 

 

Thanks for being part of the discussion.

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