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Background Color Mismatch with Text/Objects in Print, But Not in PDF

New Here ,
Oct 14, 2024 Oct 14, 2024

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Our magazine had a print issue and I am trying to figure out what went wrong--I was not involved in this issue and I want to prevent this problem from arising again.

 

The attached images show the background color of the page does not match when there are objects or text in front of it. The "background" of the text/objects should be transparent, so there should be no color difference.  Keep in mind, there is no highlight on the text, and the issue does not show up in the PDFs--only in print.

 

Can anyone help figure out what went wrong? What issue is this?

 

 

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Community Expert ,
Oct 14, 2024 Oct 14, 2024

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Do the imported images have any transparency effects applied in their original programs? This kind of background interference is not uncommon with silhouetted objects containing transparency such as a drop shadow and will often show up in PDFs as well as in print. I am guessing that the PDFs that were correct for you had their standard set as PDF/X-4:2010 in the Export Adobe PDF dialog window. This type of PDF is the best when transparency is involved. I would suggest in the future that you have your printer use these PDFs in their printing process rather than printing directly out of InDesign. 

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Community Expert ,
Oct 14, 2024 Oct 14, 2024

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Is the text rasterized? If so, why? Use no pixel text 

Is any transparency effect applied to the text?

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Community Expert ,
Oct 15, 2024 Oct 15, 2024

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@oliver_5572

 

If there are no problems when viewing in Acrobat - then RIP is at fault.

 

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Community Expert ,
Oct 15, 2024 Oct 15, 2024

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Did you ask the printer?

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Community Expert ,
Oct 15, 2024 Oct 15, 2024

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BTW, screen shots and pics are worthless in this case. We'd need to see the PDF AND know the exact export settings.

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New Here ,
Oct 16, 2024 Oct 16, 2024

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Ok, I have attached the PDF we sent to the printer. I also have attached screenshots of the settings that were most likely used. 

I'm not sure if this is relevant but I believe the PDFs were exported individually and then compiled into one master PDF (the one I attached below).

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Community Expert ,
Oct 15, 2024 Oct 15, 2024

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The pdf must be viewed in Acrobat or Reader only, with the page display preference for overprint preview set to "always".

If everything looks good here, it's the printer's fault. You can probably prevent future issues by requesting a pdf proof from the printer before going to press.

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New Here ,
Oct 16, 2024 Oct 16, 2024

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Ok, I did that and it looks good. I wasn't involved with the issue, and my understanding is that no proofs were received from the printer at the time. 

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New Here ,
Oct 16, 2024 Oct 16, 2024

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But with those view settings, there are some idiosyncracies, like this number having a transparency effect which does not show up at all in print.

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Community Expert ,
Oct 16, 2024 Oct 16, 2024

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Hi @oliver_5572 , One thing that jumps out in the PDF is the use of the Registration swatch—you should use either an RGB or rich black CMYK swatch for black text and fills:

 

Screen Shot 24.png

 

 

 

 

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Community Expert ,
Oct 15, 2024 Oct 15, 2024

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Hi @oliver_5572 , What is the output device? Is it separated offset printing or some kind of shortrun composite printer? Can you share the PDF?

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New Here ,
Oct 16, 2024 Oct 16, 2024

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It is probably shortrun composite printer as only 750 copies were printed. I have attached the PDF.

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Community Expert ,
Oct 15, 2024 Oct 15, 2024

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This appears to be a flattening issue. Whether your PDF was exported properly or not, we don't know what the printer's workflow did with it. And it appears that each flattened object is having a different color management policy applied.

Was a proof provided? If the proof was okay and was signed off on, then it's the printer's problem.

Can you provide a PDF? (in particular I'd like to see the one with the text against the yellow/orange photo). I will test it on one of my RIPs.

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New Here ,
Oct 16, 2024 Oct 16, 2024

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Proofs were not provided, but my understanding is that there was some kind of timing/lateness issue (I was not involved with this edition). I have attached a PDF. I suspect the PDF was not exported properly, as the bleeds were also wrong, and the previous issue had no problems. Thank you so much for your help!

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New Here ,
Oct 22, 2024 Oct 22, 2024

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Ok, sounds good. If you get a chance, could you look at the PDFs I attached? Thank you for your help!

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Community Expert ,
Oct 22, 2024 Oct 22, 2024

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Was this the actual PDF sent to print?

Outside of the missing bleed, I’m curious how it was exported, as the metadata indicated it was last saved using something other than InDesign’s PDF export library.

What are you Color Settings for InDesign?

What is your Transparency Blend Space?

What are your usual PDF export settings?

While I wait for those answers, this is what I’ve found:

The PDF attached here by itself is fine***. It does have live transparency, and is a mix of RGB and CMYK objects, but at some point during the prepress workflow it was indeed flattened, and after that some mismanagement came into play. It seems after it was flattened, the flattened objects were converted to CMYK with a different color profile than the rest of it. Say your flattened objects were flattened according to a GRACOL profile (if that was what your Color Setting for Document CMYK specified), while their RIP uses something else, like Web Coated; this would apply to all the non-flattened objects.

There’s too much here to figure out exactly what went wrong, so this is a general explanation, but the lack of a proof is a problem; this issue should have shown there and it could have been addressed. Also: it speaks of a lazy prodcution crew; they should have seen the problem well before it even hit the press, and even the pressman should have flagged it to question it.

I test-flattened your PDF for page 11. On that page the white title is an RGB object against a CMYK background, so when flattened, both the Transparency Blend space and the Profile assigned to your document will affect how it’s flattened to CMYK. In my example, if I view it in Acrobat using the the Output Simulation profile of GRACOL, it all looks fine, as that profile is applied to all objects on the page. However, if I switch it to Web Coated, you can see how it affects the appearance of just the non-flattened objects.

Screen Shot 2024-10-22 at 6.30.00 PM.png

 [*** mostly fine. There are several pages where the text and some backgrounds used Registration colour (100C 100M 100Y 100K). This should be changed to just 100K for the text and a nice Rich Black for the background (e.g. 40C 30M 30Y 100K); 400% ink coverage is too much. ]

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New Here ,
Oct 24, 2024 Oct 24, 2024

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Thank you so much for your help and feedback! I really appreciate it.

I attached a PDF with screenshots of our export settings. (I was not involved, but I am 99% sure these are the settings that were used). And yes, that PDF is the one we sent to print. 

Here are our color settings:

Screen Shot 2024-10-24 at 4.10.27 PM.png

Our Transparency Blend Space is CMYK.

 

So it sounds like to avoid this problem in the future, the objects should be converted to CMYK before they are placed into InDesign? Or is there an export settings/color settings fix that could avoid this?

 

Again, thank you so much!

 

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Community Expert ,
Oct 24, 2024 Oct 24, 2024

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@oliver_5572

 

Each bitmap you want to place should have profile attached - conversion to CMYK isn't necessary.

 

You'll have a problem when no profile has been assigned. 

 

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Community Expert ,
Oct 24, 2024 Oct 24, 2024

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"the objects should be converted to CMYK"

 

Not necessarily, no. You could, but it shouldn't be necessary.

There's nothing inherently wrong with your settings, but I think you might want to ramp up a bit. Instead of High Quality export setting, you could go to Press Quality, and then in the Output Section (screen grab 1), rather than No Color Conversion, you select Convert to Destination, making sure your Destination is the same as your Color Settings, i.e. US Web Coated. You could include Destination Profile blow that so that the RIP (assuming it's smart) will recognize what you are trying to match. This will convert everything (except for spot colors) to the same CMYK color space.

That being said, US Web Coated is pretty oldschool. You might ask your printer what profile they use or recommend, e.g GRCAOL or FOGRA are pretty common these days and are better suited to modern printing. Then uses that in your Color Settings / assign it to the document so that you can get the best color fidelity from their workflow.

Normally, I recommend using the PDF/x-4 PDF export settings (screen grab 2), and leave color unchanged, as long as the Destination Profile is included, but since your printer seemed to need to flatten it down, that may be over their RIPs capabilities.

In any case, there's no clear answer as to exactly what settings this print PDF was made with. (as I said, I find it odd it was last saved using the Mac OS Quartz driver and not InDesign PDF library)

The problem may have been manifested at the printer, but without a proof, there's probably not much you can do except try to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Screen Shot 2024-10-24 at 3.12.13 PM.png

 

Screen Shot 2024-10-24 at 3.11.57 PM.png

 

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