Black Box Around Endnotes and First Word for Each Endnote is Blue

[SammyReyRey]

I've made sure that text wrapping is off, I've looked at the ojbect styles and made sure that's alright, I've looked at character and paragraph styles, and I am absolutely flabbergasted at why I continue to see that thick, black box around my endnotes and why the start of each endnote is blue (including, per the screenshot, a continuation of an endnote from one page to the next). 

I've looked around these forums to no avail (that's why I knew to try some of the things mentioned above). I didn't have this problem with my endnotes until recently. This is part of a series of booklets, so I usually copy/paste the old indesign file into the new booklet's folder and then start formatting on the copied file, so the settings haven't changed, so this is a new thing in my files. I'm on Indesign 19.5, in the US (if that matters), and I don't know a whole ton about this being self-taught and Google Search taught.

I'll take any help I can get. I'm dying here. Please and thank you.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Black stroke - check applied Object Style. 

Blue numbers - there must be a CharStyle applied. If it's not set in the Endnote preferences then check applied ParaStyle for Nested Styles. 

[SammyReyRey]

Already checked all of that. Nothing. 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Already checked all of that. Nothing. 

By @SammyReyRey

As @James Gifford—NitroPress suggested - it's from the reader.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

What you are seeing are artifacts/elements introduced by the EPUB reader. They have (next to) nothing to do with anything you or InDesign is doing.

Some readers apply that black box around the Endnote frame, and IIRC it's not even a defined export/style element, but wholly created by the reader's rendering code. I can't remember offhand if a CSS statement can be used to suppress it. In any case, it will vary with the reader used — what reader are you using to view/proof your export?

Ditto for the blue numbers. They're links. Again, mostly a reader-applied effect, and can be difficult/impossible to override, at least on all readers.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@SammyReyRey 

So screenshot wasn't from InDesign? 

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Looks like a reader to me, probably ADE. Also FXL export, given the page numbers. But need some confirmation before I can make any further recommendations.

[SammyReyRey]

Yeah, it's from a kindle emulator type thing. In InDesign it looks perfectly normal, exactly like I want it to look--no black lines, no odd blue text. I'm at a loss. 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Yeah, it's from a kindle emulator type thing. In InDesign it looks perfectly normal, exactly like I want it to look--no black lines, no odd blue text. I'm at a loss. 

By @SammyReyRey

Unfortunately, you haven't clearly stated - in your opening post - that your screenshot isn't from InDesign. 

[SammyReyRey]

I'm so sorry. Can I edit my opening post? This is my first time here, I'm a little frazzled. 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

I'm so sorry. Can I edit my opening post? This is my first time here, I'm a little frazzled. 

By @SammyReyRey

No problem. 

[SammyReyRey]

Sure. But this has never happened before, I've not updated my eReader, I've not changed any settings in InDesign, and when I try to click on the blue text, it doesn't do anything (now that one might be the fault of the emulator and I'm decidedly less worried about that). I'm using Kindle Previewer 3. I'm totally fine with different readers having some oddities, or if this is a weird Adobe bug. But if I've done something wrong, I'd like to fix it. I have a work around for the black box thing, but i just hate the way it looks (and I'm prinicapally frustrated that it's happening lol). Any ideas...? I attached the epub--did you see a black box around the endnotes? Gotta ask. 🙂

I appreciate the help, by the way!! Apologies if I'm coming off as beligerent. I'm just at a loss. 

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

I don't know what you've done previously, but both effects/artifacts are common when end notes are exported to EPUB. Not universal — in fact, I just did a test export of a file I am pretty sure had the elements at one time, but it now does not create the black box. So it may be a version thing; if you haven't, update your copy of Kindle Previewer and see if the box goes away.

But the blue numbers are links. They are clickable in Thorium EPUB reader; links in Kindle Previewer can be oddly hit or miss in trying to click or activate, with Ctrl-click and sometimes a double-click needed. There is next to no way to get rid of the blue link highlighting — there are tricks at the CSS level, but if a reader is going to highlight links, very little can be done about it.

You can try this: assign  a null Object Style to the Endnote text frames. Make it a completely vanilla clone of [None] and make sure it does not have any border or outer stroke defined, and no overrides. Then assign it to all Endnote text frames. That may kill the black outline. If not, we can throw a CSS formatting command at it.

In general, though, I wouldn't export to fixed-page EPUB, especially not for Kindle if you're headed that direction. FXL is outdated, a poor choice for "text" books (as opposed to "picture page" books), and does not display well or at all on dedicated Kindle readers. (Only the tablet and desktop readers can display FXL, making it unavailable to some large part of the Kindle audience.) If you're just proofing for EPUB, Kindle Previewer is a poor choice for that, since it's not EPUB and has many of its own rules. Use a generic EPUB reader such as Calibre instead.

[SammyReyRey]

Ah. Okay. That makes enough sense. I'll try a non-fixed page EPUB for the ones I can. Some of them have graphs that make a nightmare out of reflowable EPUBs. Or at least they do for me. 

Thank you for you help! You clearly know what's up--do you have a website (with ads preferably so I'm not just mooching) or some resource to help me learn? 🙂 If not, seriously--thank you. I don't feel crazy anymore and I've learned somethings. Always a good day.  

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

You will probably find these essay/tutorials of use, starting with this one: http://www.nitrosyncretic.com/DPR/dpr_indesign_epub_basics.php

And the book they are more or less excerpted from/paired with is the overall reference for EPUB/Kindle from InDesign.

I would not use FXL export for text books; its last remaining use is for "picture page" books like graphic novels, children's books and the like. Reflowable takes a little more effort and skill but is the proper format for e-books.

It's also better to import/place Word files using the Place feature and the fairly comprehensive import filter than to cut and paste them. Word already has enough problems, compounded by the conversion to ID, that taking this step carefully, even with what seems like simple text, is a very useful approach.

[SammyReyRey]

Many thanks!!

[rexsacrorum]

I don't think it's the reader. I am running into the same problem on a different reader (Calibre 7.20) than the OP, and moreover when I tested with various EPUB to PDF conversion tools, the black box appeared in the output for all of them.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

To clarify a somewhat jumbled discussion —

• I think the problem originates with InDesign when a border is defined for the [Basic Text Frame], on which the endnote frame is based.
• The flaw appears because of some chain of events from that, through export, on some but not all readers.
• The solution is —
  • To make sure [Basic Text Frame] — or any of the "default" styles at all — are not used in the document.
  • To make sure [BTF] is completely vanilla, with no modifications. Especially not a border.
  • To not export [BTF] — disinclude it from the exported styles.
  • And as a final nail in the coffin, include a CSS file that defines [BTF] as having no border (see below).

If that combination doesn't eliminate the black box on EPUB export, report back here with details.

[NoBTFborder.css]
div.Basic-Text-Frame {
border:none;
}

FWIW, I don't think wonky side channels like EPUB to PDF show anything useful, either way. It's just another layer of nonstandardized (doubly nonstandardized) interpretation clouding the issue.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

A question I forgot to ask: was the content for this book created in/imported from Word? I am pretty sure that's the source of the black box in most cases, and the reason it's not seen in all InDesign EPUBs with end notes.

[SammyReyRey]

I copy/pasted from a .doc or a .docx. No importing though. 

[Laura Brady]

The black frame is some default CSS styling from InDesign to EPUB which is annoying. If you can edit the CSS, look for border instructions and delete them entirely. The blue numbers are default hyperlinking styling. The footnote reference numbers have two-way hyperlinks from the text to the footnote and back again.