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Emperor1212
Participating Frequently
November 16, 2012
Answered

Blacks turn dark grey after exporting to pdf from InDeign cs6

  • November 16, 2012
  • 9 replies
  • 123240 views

Exactly what the title says. The one on the right is from Indesign....the left one is after exporting (the same in preview and acrobat reader).Anyone know why this happens?

This topic has been closed for replies.
Correct answer rob day

How is the age of the thread relevant?

 

If it were simple there'd be no people looking for solutions!

 

Why on earth would there be an array of confused and quite random suggestions here from fraught people - including unchecking tick boxes and all sorts  - WELL within the last 8 years if no issue!

 


Because not all users completely understand how color management, or offset printing works. Offset inks are not opaque, and that is reflected in the InDesign and Acrobat soft proofing of [Black] and Black+CMY. Proofing the appearance variations of black ink combinations on coated and uncoated paper stocks is not a bug it’s a color management feature.

 

If the output is to an offset press, and you want an absolute black for large areas of ink coverage, you need to add CMY to the mix without exceeding the output profile’s total ink limit—something like 65|50|50|100 is a typical rich black value.

 

If your output is for screen display, or composite printing, use an RGB 0|0|0 black swatch. Almost all composite print drivers are RGB, and the final output color convsersions are made by the driver.

9 replies

damianb_
Known Participant
September 14, 2020

Regardless of output, it's the settings within Indesign that are confusing, ambiguous, inconsistent and misleading. hence the multiple queries. What's the 100% perfect set up for digital, to achieve consistent blacks then?

Randy Hagan
Community Expert
Community Expert
September 14, 2020

There isn't just one perfect setup.

 

There may be one perfect setup for the specific job you're creating, but the "perfect" rich black is different for newspaper printing than it is for magazines, as it would still be different for sheetfed printing on coated stock as it would for running it out on your office laser printer, which would be different still for producing a job that'd only be viewed online. That's why InDesign lets you set the perfect values for any job you may be producing.

 

The "perfect" black would be right for one of those possibilities and anywhere from not quite as good to entirely wrong for the rest. That's why InDesign lets you set up your rich black color settings to accommodate each of those possibilities as necessary. That's also why it's important whenever you're sending a job out of house to be printed to have the corrrect color settings to produce that specific job.

 

Your print rep is your friend here, and the good ones are perfectly happy to share the correct settings to get the best results. They want you to be happy with their work and keep coming back.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Randy

Participant
January 12, 2019

I do not know if the question for getting pdfs to turn true black was answered.

What I did was...

1. Click the FILL box on the properties tab under appearance

2. When the second tab opens, I double-clicked the color box

3. This opens the Color Picker. It showed RBG and L:a:b: as 0 for each. I added CMYK and changed each of those 100%.

After that my PDFs shows as true black.

Randy Hagan
Community Expert
Community Expert
September 11, 2020

Wow. I hope you're not using that for commercial four-color printing.

 

400% total ink coverage, I'm sure, looks very black onscreen. But that's going to soak any paper substrate you run and gum up the press something fierce.

 

I don't know if this is the correct answer. It looks like a very bad cure to me.

 

Randy

rob day
Community Expert
Community Expert
September 11, 2020

Someone should change the marked as correct post—a 400% CMYK color would not be a problem for screen display or composite print output, but would be a real problem with offset press output.

Participating Frequently
August 17, 2018

I have usedCS5 for years without any problems. Yesterday, Windows updated. Today when output a pdf, the black is grey and if the black is layered over an image, the image is now showing through but the black opacity is at 100%. This has never happened before. I didn't change any settings. Please HELP!

Dov Isaacs
Legend
August 17, 2018

How do you “output a PDF?” Assuming that you use InDesign's Export PDF function, there is absolutely nothing in Windows that is involved in the production of that PDF file or display of same via either Acrobat or Reader. If you are “printing to PDF,” you are in a totally non-recommended workflow that could be affected by Windows updates, depending upon how you are printing to PDF.

Provide more information, please, including how you create PDF and how you view it plus OS version.

          - Dov

- Dov Isaacs, former Adobe Principal Scientist (April 30, 1990 - May 30, 2021)
Participating Frequently
August 20, 2018

Dov Isaacs  Thanks Dov. Yes, I usually use the Export PDF function. Due to this problem I also tried printing to PDF to see if there would be a different result, but the result was the same. Working in Windows 7.

I tested a variety of documents that have not had any problems in the past, and all are exporting with this problem.

Emperor1212
Participating Frequently
November 16, 2012

I had no conversion...these were my settings.

rob day
Community Expert
Community Expert
November 16, 2012

I had no conversion...these were my settings.

Right, your CMYK values are being exported unchanged, but the preview (or the conversion of the CMYK values back to your monitor's RGB space for display) in the different programs might change depending on the CMYK profile or color settings being used when you view.

If a CMYK profile is included with the PDF, Acrobat Reader and Preview will use the profile for display, but it looks like Preview doesn't use black point compensation while Reader does:

InDesign, Preview, Reader (ID has black point compensation turned on):

Emperor1212
Participating Frequently
November 16, 2012

oh wow....I guess I better undo that [registration] I just applied haha....it's to bad they dont make a rich black one of the stock swatch colors =)

Participating Frequently
November 16, 2012

I think that may have been a conscious choice (to leave a Rich Black out). Almost every output device has a different ink coverage threshold, and coupled with different color profiles this usually means there are different specific rich blacks. I work for a printing company and we have 3 different rich blacks that we need to use for our 7 devices.

In most cases, mixes like the ones Peter mentions above will work fine across multiple devices. But it's hard to define a true standard when machines and color management are constantly changing.

Emperor1212
Participating Frequently
November 16, 2012

awesome thanks guys. I had cheked that off years ago but recently upgraded to cs6 and forgot about that hehe. Is [registration] teh same as rich black? it looks like it on the screen..

Peter Spier
Community Expert
Community Expert
November 16, 2012

Registration is a rich black, but not one you should be using for any printed project. It's a special color that is made of 100% of every ink in the document and is designed for putting marks on the various color plates when the separations are made. Using it for anything else will result in ink puddling and offset onto the back of the next sheet on a press or toner flaking off your laser prints on many papers.

A more typical rich black mix would be 80, 70, 70, 100 or perhaps 70, 60, 60, 100 for a sheetfed press and 50, 40, 40, 100 for web, inkjet, or laser, but but you should check with the printer to see what they recommend. Rob may pop back with other recommendatins based on specific profiles, but keep in mind that although a profile may allow a total ink of up to 350% coverage, in practice it's usually better to stay below that for large areas as it's easier to control when actually putting the ink on paper.

rob day
Community Expert
Community Expert
November 16, 2012

Black to ensure that 100% K does not get screened to a dark gray when the output is to grayscale.

Peter, the OP's capture isn't showing a grayscale conversion.

The one on the right is from Indesign....the left one is after exporting (the same in preview and acrobat reader)

By default ID overprints 100% black (CMYK 0|0|0|100) and previews it as a lighter value than black plus a CMY mix, which is what will happen on an offset press. When 100% black overprints an image the image will show through (you can see the show through in your captures). Make a rich black swatch and ues it for your black fills, something like 60|50|50|100. You have to make a rich black swatch and apply it—the black appearance preference has no affect on CMYK export.

Peter Spier
Community Expert
Community Expert
November 16, 2012

Rob, I do know that. My comment was just a further recommendation for avoiding similar issues sometime in the future should the OP actuall want to do a grayscale conversion. It isn't obvious that the Output All Blacks as Rich Black setting has no effect on cmyk or RGB exports, but does on grayscale. It took me more than a few years to (and maybe some input from you) to figure that out and get solid type on one-color prints.

rob day
Community Expert
Community Expert
November 16, 2012

In this case it looks like the color change is because the color mangement settings are not sync'd and not a color conversion—if there was a CMYK-to-CMYK conversion on export the image wouldn't show through.

ID, Acrobat, and Preview all display some black CMYK mixes as something other than absolute black, but the preview depends on the color settings so there could be a shift if they don't match.

Different black mixes US SWOP Coated with Black Point Compensation

The same values with an Uncoated CMYK profile without BPC:

Peter Spier
Community Expert
Community Expert
November 16, 2012

And under the Appearance of Black in your prefs change the dispaly to Display All Blacks Accurately. I set the output to Output All Blacks as Rich Black to ensure that 100% K does not get screened to a dark gray when the output is to grayscale.

Normally the output choice makes no difference when exporting or printing to PDF, but if the destination is monchrome ID presumes that there may be rich blacks that need to be rendered darker than 0,0,0,100 and maps the output accordingly so that 0,0,0,100 is printed someplace inthe mid 90% range and 100% ink is available for a rich black if needed. Setting the output to all blacks as rich black treats all blacks the same (but only when the output is grayscale) and keeps your black type and other objects solid.

Youri Penders
Participant
November 16, 2012

You are probably using 100% black instead of Rich Black.

Go to InDesign preferences to change the appearance of black.

Good luck!