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johnivanwhite
Known Participant
May 30, 2018
Answered

Can Export to a plain text/txt file? (To check text 'threading')

  • May 30, 2018
  • 5 replies
  • 7552 views

Hi All,

I create my CVs in InDesign, and exprt to PDF, which looks lovely. Much nicer than if I did it MS Word (shudderrr...)

However, I have a feeling that my PDF may not be being 'read' properly by automated systems. My suspicions were aroused when using online job sites to import my CV. The text from my InDesign text boxes (n the PDF) end up in the wrong order and mixed up on their site.

I'm attempting to 'thread' the text boxes together now to see if that makes a correctly flowing PDF doc, to see if that remedies the problem. So I was hoping that I could export my InDesign doc as a boring, plain unformatted txt file to see if it all flows in the right order.

Any advice much appreciated

John

This topic has been closed for replies.
Correct answer Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com

What the resume reader wants is a machine readable PDF, which is the same as a tagged, accessible PDF.

For this to be successful (and unscrambled), two reading orders need to be controlled; the tag reading order and the construction reading order. The tag RO is the primary one used by most technologies, but some technologies use the construction RO, so plan for both if you'd like your resume to be viewed!

In InDesign:

The first 4 steps create the tags and tag reading order.

  1. Make sure all your text frames are either threaded in the sequence you want them read, or sequenced in the Articles Panel. You can also anchor smaller ones into larger text frames, too.
  2. Use View/Extras/Show Text Threads to actually see the blue arrows from frame to frame, or the threading order.
  3. To tag it so that the PDF has the correct tags, set that in the Export Tags part of your paragraph styles. The main tags are H1 for the title, H2 for the top level subhead, H3 for the next level subhead, and P for body text stuff. Bullet lists and tables are set to Automatic.

These steps correct the construction reading order.

  1. Using the Layers Panel, drag items up/down to create a logical reading order. The bottom most item on the bottom most layer will be read first, and so forth up the layers panel.
  2. Then export the to PDF Interactive and make sure that these checkboxes are checked: Create Tagged PDF and Use Structure for Tab Order.

That should give you a PDF that is compliant enough to work with the resume reader.

One note: the Articles Panel works top - down; that is the top item is read first.

The Layers Panel works bottom - up; the bottom item is read first.

5 replies

J
johnivanwhiteAuthor
Known Participant
June 13, 2018

One issue I'm having:

In the panel shown, at present, I can't tag the text elements. I select P, or H1, but they don't apply, and just revert to 'Automatic.'.

This is an on and off temperamental occurance. I don't know what's causing it.

J
johnivanwhiteAuthor
Known Participant
June 13, 2018

OK, I somehow managed to get this working. Some styles had a + symbol beside them. I think this denotes that the style of the instance on the page has been overridden by a manual style, like align centre. So I incorporated that manual alignment into the style itself, and re-applied that updated style to the text. Just on that one style.

Et voila: all of the styles that previously had a + beside them all seemd to be OK and I could tag all of them.

Weird.

Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com
Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.comCorrect answer
Legend
May 31, 2018

What the resume reader wants is a machine readable PDF, which is the same as a tagged, accessible PDF.

For this to be successful (and unscrambled), two reading orders need to be controlled; the tag reading order and the construction reading order. The tag RO is the primary one used by most technologies, but some technologies use the construction RO, so plan for both if you'd like your resume to be viewed!

In InDesign:

The first 4 steps create the tags and tag reading order.

  1. Make sure all your text frames are either threaded in the sequence you want them read, or sequenced in the Articles Panel. You can also anchor smaller ones into larger text frames, too.
  2. Use View/Extras/Show Text Threads to actually see the blue arrows from frame to frame, or the threading order.
  3. To tag it so that the PDF has the correct tags, set that in the Export Tags part of your paragraph styles. The main tags are H1 for the title, H2 for the top level subhead, H3 for the next level subhead, and P for body text stuff. Bullet lists and tables are set to Automatic.

These steps correct the construction reading order.

  1. Using the Layers Panel, drag items up/down to create a logical reading order. The bottom most item on the bottom most layer will be read first, and so forth up the layers panel.
  2. Then export the to PDF Interactive and make sure that these checkboxes are checked: Create Tagged PDF and Use Structure for Tab Order.

That should give you a PDF that is compliant enough to work with the resume reader.

One note: the Articles Panel works top - down; that is the top item is read first.

The Layers Panel works bottom - up; the bottom item is read first.

|    Bevi Chagnon   |  Designer, Trainer, & Technologist for Accessible Documents ||    PubCom |    Classes & Books for Accessible InDesign, PDFs & MS Office |
    J
    johnivanwhiteAuthor
    Known Participant
    June 1, 2018

    Hi Ben,

    Thanks for joining in and composing all of that.

    Funnily enough, on a hunch, I re-ordered my text frames in the layers so that the first on is at the top of the stack—the opposite of what you suggested. I'll re-arrange them.

    I haven't dealt with 'articles' before in an INDD doc.

    I'll check out that tags business in relation to headings and paragraphs etc.

    If I export an interactive pdf, will that produce a low-quality/screen quality PDF?

    Thanks,

    John

    Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com
    Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com
    Legend
    June 1, 2018

    If I export an interactive pdf, will that produce a low-quality/screen quality PDF?

    You can control the quality settings in the Compression section of the Export controls panel.

    Since this is a resume, I assume you'd want a higher-res and quality if it contains a personal portrait photo. Got to look your best, even when digitized!

    I'd increase the quality to High and the Resolution to 300, unless there were a lot of graphics in the document which would cause these settings to bloat the file size of the final PDF. Balance the settings to give you something that works.

    |    Bevi Chagnon   |  Designer, Trainer, & Technologist for Accessible Documents ||    PubCom |    Classes & Books for Accessible InDesign, PDFs & MS Office |
      jane-e
      Community Expert
      jane-eCommunity Expert
      Community Expert
      May 31, 2018

      I found this link with tips on the Applicant Tracking System (ATS) software. The gist of it is: design for the machine, not for human eyes.

      https://www.themuse.com/advice/beat-the-robots-how-to-get-your-resume-past-the-system-into-human-hands

      J
      johnivanwhiteAuthor
      Known Participant
      May 31, 2018

      Thanks for this, Jane-e,

      I'm surprised at:

      "the ATS can’t read fancy fonts"

      It also warns against sending PDFs. If you're a designer, Word is basically out of the question. Some Design companies specifically request a well-made PDF resume.

      interesting about using standard headings.

      jane-e
      Community Expert
      jane-eCommunity Expert
      Community Expert
      May 31, 2018

      I was surprised at what I read, too. Try Barb's idea of one frame and using Tags.

      To make the new résumé look the same, copy the layer, then use indents and spacing to match what you did originally.

      Do you have work on Béhance? It's included with your Creative Cloud subscription, and you might also put a résumé there with other examples of your work.

      J
      johnivanwhiteAuthor
      Known Participant
      May 30, 2018

      Hi Barb.

      Thanks for your help.

      It's good to know about View > Extra > Show Text Threads.

      Create Tagged PDF seems to be on by default anyway.

      Unless there's a way to export a plain text file, I suppose I'll have to try importing my PDF into a job site CV builder and see what happens.

      TᴀW
      TᴀW
      Legend
      May 30, 2018

      To export as plain text, select the text in question and go to File > Export and choose text only (txt).

      But to check whether things are threaded properly the standard way is to switch on "show text threads" as Barb suggests above.

      Or, place your cursor in some text and press Ctrl-Y to open the text in Story Editor, which is effectively the same thing as exporting it to .txt for your purposes.

      Or just place the cursor in the text and hit the down-arrow key to move the cursor down and see where that takes you.

      Ariel

      Visit www.id-extras.com for powerful InDesign scripts that save hours of work — automation, batch tools, and workflow boosters for serious designers.
      J
      johnivanwhiteAuthor
      Known Participant
      May 30, 2018

      Hi Ariel,

      I don't have that export option for all of the text in the doc at once.

      My doc's page 1, which has a fancy layout, has seperate boxes for

      paragraph, paragraph,

      heading 2,

      paragraph, paragraph, paragraph,

      Do I need to thread the paragraph boxes into the heading box and out to the following paragraph box?

      Barb Binder
      Community Expert
      Barb BinderCommunity Expert
      Community Expert
      May 30, 2018

      Hi John:

      When you export to PDF enable Create Tagged PDF.

      ~Barb

      ~Barb at Rocky Mountain Training
      Barb Binder
      Community Expert
      Barb BinderCommunity Expert
      Community Expert
      May 30, 2018

      And to check text threading, turn on View > Extra > Show Text Threads.

      ~Barb

      ~Barb at Rocky Mountain Training
        happie_97
        Community Expert
        happie_97Community Expert
        Community Expert
        May 31, 2018

        Hi again Barb.

        I added a frame break (insert break character > frame break) ad I think it's working. Very temperamental though.

        I also exported the PDF and tried 'arrowing' down through the text and the cursor jumps from the page 1 main heading down to page 2 and then back to the 1st paragraph on page 1 again. It makes no sense, because the Threading is correct in InDesign.

        I haven't found a 'Check Accessibility' option in Acrobat Pro—HOWEVER—I've just found and tried Acrobat's

        File > Export To > Text (Accessible)

        and

        File > Export To > Text (Plain)

        Both of those produce a version that's all in the correct order.

        Maybe those are good enough tests!


        Did your solution solve your problem or do you need more troubleshooting advice? Either way, please update the forum so that we can continue to assist if needed.

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