Convert fonts to outlines - when is absolutely needed?

[Guest]

Hello,

Do I need to convert the fonts to outlines when exporting to .pdf?

How about before packaging the finished job? (I might be wrong, but I think not since the fonts are packaged along with all the elements).

Thank you!

[BobLevine]

I know a lot of sign makers still prefer to get CorelDRAW files.

[Abambo]

I always thought that this was because their programs to pilot the plotters were running on DOS-PCs (Windows?) and Illustrator only on Mac Computers.

[ChessChing]

Yes for certain types of printers PDF is perfect (digital, web, offset) but for large format printers we need to create layered files. Our cutter only reads AI files and we need to extract die lines, add white ink layers, nest the files. All of which is done in Illustrator. Whenever possible I avoid embedding the PDF, but there are often (I'd say 1 in 5) times when I need to embed the PDF.

[Abambo]

At the time, I did folders in Ventura Publisher, and my service providers returned the data, when something was not workable for them (I started including JPEG compressed EPS files, and they lost colour on their journey to paper). That allowed me to correct and the next folder was prepared with all jingles attached and got straight to the paper. This enhanced my experience, but also my service provider's.

EPS will create quite the same problems when you open them in illustrator.

[Dov Isaacs]

Corwin Steeves wrote:

Lol I'm not sure about 'enhance' but that's very optimistic of you. I think we'll just remove PDF as a file option and go back to EPS which is too bad because EPS files are so large.

To be very clear, just as Adobe Illustrator is not a general purpose PDF file editor, it is absolutely not a general purpose EPS file editor. There are many features of EPS (which can be based on PostScript Language Level 3) that are beyond the capabilities of Adobe Illustrator, plus as others have indicated, anything PostScript-based is lossy in terms of at least color management and transparency. Simple vector EPS as well as EPS saved directly from Illustrator is generally safe to open in Illustrator, but there are no guarantees.

          - Dov

[Abambo]

Good that I didn't know this at those times I needed badly a PDF or EPS editor.  It's doing quite an excellent job for a product that's not supposed to do that job.

On the other hand, I would never have considered Illustrator as an imposition tool.

[BobLevine]

You can use the back of a wrench to drive a nail. That doesn’t make it the right tool.

[Abambo]

Never used a wrench, but I used a lot of hammers, some more others less appropriate for the nail. (a carpenter' son knows to drive a nail in the wood )

[Dov Isaacs]

Corwin Steeves wrote:

I will definitely heed this advice, though it will add time and complications for our clients.

Are there any plans in the works to make PDF's more compatable with Illustrator?

You are asking the wrong question. PDF is an international standard with immense capabilities including support for forms, multimedia, JavaScript, etc.

Your real question is whether there are plans to make Illustrator a full PDF editor. The answer to that is absolutely no, for better or worse.

          - Dov

[Peter Spier]

corwins wrote:

I'm curious why Illustrator would destroy a PDF. They are both Adobe products and more likely than not the PDF was created in and saved from Illustrator.

Actually, that's the one time it IS OK to open and edit a PDF in Illustrator -- if it was saved from Illustrator retaining Illustrator compatibility.

I feel your pain, by the way. The best solution, of course, is to get your clients to make properly layered files to begin with, but I do understand this is the real world. If they can't provide correctly made PDFs, maybe you should be asking for native files as well.

[Test Screen Name]

I don't know how old this kit is. But DOS hasn't existed since Windows 95 was released (21 years) and Illustrator for Windows started with verson 2.0, 29 years ago.

[MW Design]

Well, Windows was on top of DOS up until Windows ME (DOS + Windows). The NT lineage of Windows is not nor ever has been Windows layered on top of DOS (but does include the possibility to run MS-DOS applications, the command prompt, etc.).

[Test Screen Name]

Why would you want to do that?

[Dov Isaacs]

@Jay_Riether

There is absolutely nothing about “pro” fonts that should double the size of a PDF file assuming (1) the exact same content in both files and (2) you are subset embedding the font (which all Adobe products do when creating PDF). I'd love example(s) of such “before” and ”after” fonts in terms of non-“pro” and “pro” fonts. Note that all that “pro” label connotates is that the font's designer believes that the font has a larger glyph complement such as for multiple languages, symbols, etc. and more OpenType features. Unreferenced glyphs and most of the OpenType formatting features are not part of the font that gets embedded in a PDF file.

On the other hand, PDF files that have outlined text lose text searchability and text editability.

Something else must be occuring to bulk up the size of your PDF files. That's why providing some samples might help us solve your problem.

             - Dov