Creating EPS with transparent gradient

[BlackBear]

Hi!

I've been working on a simple graphic motive with some text, changed to outlines. The object (former text) is black with a transparent gradient added to the bottom. I've used the "gradient to transparent tool" (I'm not really sure if this is the right name for it, my workspace is in danish, but its the tool that shows the squared background).

My problem is, that the transparent area, changes to white, when saved/exported to EPS. This becomes visible when placed on af colored background. When I save it as PDF, it remains transparent. 

The colorspace for transparency is set to CMYK.

I really need it as a EPS, because the person who needs the image, requires it that way. I just know that it's supposed to be used for both print and digital showing. 

I hope that any of the stuff i've wrote, made sense and that someone can help me.

Kind regards, BlackBear

[Derek Cross]

EPS is an obsolete format. Normally you place native files (AI and PSD) in InDesign documents (in RGB color mode). Maybe you can send a PDF/X.

[Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com · Accepted solution]

Quote: EPS is an obsolete format.

I call it an older file format, but not obsolete. It's fine for conventional graphics, like logos and simple illustrations that don't use any transparency features (such as blending, drop shadows, and transparent gradients). It's a simple file format that is used by every print shop in the world, without problems -- when it's built correctly for the right type of graphics.

It really depends upon how the graphic will be used and in which program(s).

Example (1):

This EPS (3) graphic was placed on a background tint in InDesign. InDesign correctly identifies the "white / transparent" areas and renders it correctly. Note that the internal bowls of the p, b, and o are correctly handled.

However, note that if the same graphic is placed in MS Word, PowerPoint, etc., it will have a white box around it.

Same EPS file but placed in MS Word.

Example (2):

A gradient is applied to the text/vector outlines in Illustrator and the graphic is exported as EPS(3) and placed into InDesign. The transparent areas are lost, converted to white.

Gradient's transparency doesn't hold when placed in InDesign.

In this usage, AI, PDF (graphical), or even PNG would work better because the transparency can be retained.

However, if this is to be a graphic for all-purpose uses in many different programs, a transparent PNG is the best solution because MS Office doesn't import AI and PDF-graphics.

[BlackBear]

Thanks for the nice explanation, that is pretty much what I experienced. The most important thing is that it is vector-based, and I've was under the impreesion that PNG is raster. 

It is to be used as an adddition to a logo, sometimes on print and sometimes digital.

But as I can read from some of the others, I might just need to get in contact with the person, to know why the EPS-file is som important.

Again, thanks a lot for your help.

[BlackBear]

I'll have a talk with the person who needs it, to see if it could be possible to send in PDF/X.

Thank you for the help.

[Lukas Engqvist]

As said above EPS does not support transparency. Some transparent effects can be simulated by use of overprint, but that requires knowing what is in the background. PDF as you say supports transparency and is a better option. If they need it in EPS it is likely they cannot use transparency, if they can use transparency you should be able to send them a PDF.

[BlackBear]

Thanks! It seems like I need to have a word with the person who wants the graphic. Hopefully its just a silly formality that she havent thought about.

[Bill Silbert · Accepted solution]

If you follow Derek and Lukas advice to use a pdf then it should be a PDF/X-4 which retains transparency. In this case it will be necessary to push back with your vendor who is asking for an EPS. The EPS format has not been updated since the 1990s—when transparency was more or less in its infancy and so not recognized as a feature in the EPS format.

[Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com]

Is it a printer that's asking for the file in EPS format?

Is this a layout file of a document or flyer, or just a graphic that someone will reuse in InDesign and/or other programs?

[Dov Isaacs]

Interesting discussion!  😄

Ignoring for the time being the issue of whether or not EPS is an “obsolete” file format or not, some issues to consider:

(1)  PostScript (and therefore EPS, Encapsulated PostScript) absolutely does not support transparency in any way whatsoever. You can hack around with overprint, but that really isn't the same as the 16 blend modes of the PDF imaging model.

(2)  Although PostScript language level 3 does support “live gradients,” it doesn't support them in conjunction with transparency.

(3)  PostScript does not support ICC color management. It is best at DeviceGray, DeviceCMYK, and DeviceRGB. Yes, there is such a beast as PostScript Color Management but it is not ICC color management and inconstently implemented; don't go there!

(4)  The OP stated that with regard to this EPS artwork, “it's supposed to be used for both print and digital showing.” Well, unless you know exactly which CMYK is going to be used for printing, EPS can be problematic for 21st century printing which is overwhelmingly PDF-centric with ICC color management. And for “display” which I assume might be for web pages, EPS is fairly useless since no web browser supports EPS. EPS content would need to be converted to something else for direct web display, perhaps SVG? In any case, with several generations of lossiness due to conversions, quality is potentially going to suffer tremendously.

(5)  Bevi gave some interesting examples of EPS issues. However, be aware that placing EPS into Microsoft Office formats yields only a raster bitmap unless printing to a PostScript printer (and even then, Microsoft no longer officially claims EPS support).

(6)  If the content is for placement into Illustrator or InDesign, EPS is ridiculous since it is lossy per above. You want PDF for this purpose (even for logos and “simple” graphics (and by the way, when you allegedly place .AI Illustrator files into InDesign, you are really placing the PDF aspect of such files, not the actual Illustrator content – I strongly recommend that you save a copy of an Illustrator file as a PDF/X-4 from Illustrator with no downsampling of images and use of a lossless compression and place that into InDesign).

OK, that all being said, I'll tell you what I really think. Yes, EPS is a wonderful late 20th century file format. We continue to support placement of EPS into Adobe graphic arts applications simply because there is so much legacy content from the mid-1980s through the first few years of this century in that format. We continue to support creation of EPS from our applications primarily due to the need to support Luddites who either stopped keeping current 15 years ago or more or who have coal powered, steam driven equipment and workflow software that can't deal with anything newer than PostScript-based technologies.

                - Dov

[BlackBear]

Seriously great respons!

Some hard reading, but very interesting, especially when I sometimes struggle with the background techniques when filing images, logos and other graphics correctly. 

Thank you so much for taking your time to help.

[Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com]

To summarize the above recommendations from everyone...

• Save as PDF/X-4 when the graphic will be used in traditional desktop publishing apps (InDesign, Illustrator, etc.). When placing/importing into InDesign, use the Import Options to select transparent background.
• The native AI file can also be placed into DTP apps and produce similar results to PDF/X-4, but most designers usually don't give AI files to clients.
• Save as a high-res PNG when the graphic will be used in office applications (MS Office apps), EPUBs, and HTML.  300-400 ppi will suffice when it's printed to desktop printers, toner-based "presses" and even traditional offset presses. Although this is higher than what the HTML industry recommends for graphics, 300 ppi graphics look crisper on modern smart phones, tablets, and 4k monitors which are now the new "norm." This is especially important for graphics with hard edges and text such as branding, web banners, advertising, and logos.

In situations like yours, our studio provides clients with 2 sets of graphics:

• PDF/X-4 = Press-quality. Scalable. Usually RGB unless there's an issue with dicey colors like flag-red and flag-blue, which we then nail down the specific CMYK builds.
• PNG Large dimensions @ 300 ppi, PNG Medium dimensions @ 300 ppi, and PNG Small dimensions @ 300 ppi = for use in office applications, websites, and other digital media. RGB. These are the versions generally used by the client themselves.

Example: how Word handles these various file types:

Transparency of various graphics file types in MS Word.

[Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com]

Quote: who either stopped keeping current 15 years ago or more or who have coal powered, steam driven equipment and workflow software that can't deal with anything newer than PostScript-based technologies.

Dov, so glad you're thinking of my government clients' print shops! Especially those small mom-and-pops that produce on a dime for my clients, but still can't handle an email attachment.

It's a blended world out there!