CS5 Running very sticky

[Guest]

Hello,

I've installed InDesign CS5 and it's running terribly when I have graphics placed, especially at high resolution display.  It's choppy, sticky - to much to even work with.  I've thrown out the SavedData and InDesign Defaults, but it doesn't help.  Has anyone else experienced this problem, or have any ideas what I can do.  CS4 runs fine.

Thanks,

Adam

[Guest]

I can have one semi complicated .ai file and nothing else on the page.  The only setting you mentioned that would be turned on is high quality preview.  With that you cannot move the picture on the screen smoothly without it  jumping all around.  I can have CS4 open with 20 complicated .ai files and 100 images on a 44 page catalog and it runs beautifully.

[peter_minneapolis]

adamgordon wrote:

I can have one semi complicated .ai file and nothing else on the page.  The only setting you mentioned that would be turned on is high quality preview.  With that you cannot move the picture on the screen smoothly without it  jumping all around.  I can have CS4 open with 20 complicated .ai files and 100 images on a 44 page catalog and it runs beautifully.

Is it possible that there's a newer video driver for your hardware?

I don't think you've mentioned whether the display is integral - like an iMac - or external. I'm not sure that would make a difference, but perhaps there's an issue with the connection between the computer and an external monitor. Are you using more than one display? Are there some other display settings that come into play with multiple monitors, like mirroring, primary and secondary, refresh rates for one or both, etc? Just guessing.

Have you tried exporting the file to IDML and opening that in InDesign CS5? Have you tried the file on another machine running InDesign CS5? What results?

HTH

Regards,

Peter

_______________________

Peter Gold

KnowHow ProServices

[Guest]

I have a 17" Macbook Pro. A unibody model. I also have an external 24" Mac display. Happens on both screens even when I'm not connected to the external. And it's not just one file, it's every file. I can duplicate this every time with the multiple .ai files Ive tested. I don't know if there's a new driver, but mine is not old or bad. As I've stated, CS4 handles the same images placed without issue. Illustrator and Photoshop run fine.

I have not tried exporting to IDML. But I will. And I have not tried another machine. I did create a test user with same results though.

Adam

[peter_minneapolis]

adamgordon wrote:

I can have one semi complicated .ai file and nothing else on the page.  The only setting you mentioned that would be turned on is high quality preview.  With that you cannot move the picture on the screen smoothly without it  jumping all around.  I can have CS4 open with 20 complicated .ai files and 100 images on a 44 page catalog and it runs beautifully.

If you can package an example of the sticky file and its illustration where we could download it, we can let you know how it works on our CS5 installations.

HTH

Regards,

Peter

_______________________

Peter Gold

KnowHow ProServices

[Peter Spier]

peter at knowhowpro wrote:

Your 2560 x 1440 resolution seems to indicate a 27" screen. 256 MB VRAM is probably on the scant side of sufficient for processing this many pixels quickly...

I thought that might be a factor, too, but I've also got a Radeon (different model) with 256 mb VRAM driving a 27" monitor, though mine is only 1920 x 1200, and I see no slowdown.

[Digmar]

Peter,

Thanks for offering some ideas. Uh, you are correct. It is a 27" iMac. (5 months old) As a side note, this machine rocks! Phenomenal depth and range of color. It's made design work much easier.

Honestly, I cannot speak to the VRAM issue, all I could add is that it works perfectly in CS4, so logic would dictate that the only variable in the equation is ID CS5. Same files, machine, user, etc.

It also may be relevant to note that I use this machine to fly X-Plane 9.0, which is insanely graphic intensive with lots of motion, and the machine handles it superbly. I will very rarely get a motion freeze, but then quickly catches up if it does happen. I have to believe if it can render X-Plane motion okay, ID CS4 okay, PS CS5, AI CS5, etc., then there is something specific to the ID code handling that has changed. (For the worse) It is simply the only variable that has changed.

I further have to stress that I do get other "Sticky" issues on ID CS5 as well. This includes the following:

1. Resizing the document pane can be very sticky or non responsive.

2. I can click out of ID to the desktop or other program, ID refuses to release the screen. I have to click back on ID and then back off for it to deselect.

3. I've had ID crash when pulling pallets into other pallet windows. Report sent to Adobe.

None of this happened in CS4. (And still doesn't) I've reinstalled, deleted preferences and more. Nothing has resolved the issues.

It seems we keep looking at the individual machines for the cause, and I understand that inclination, however, the only program struggling on my machine is ID CS5. I think we have enough reports of this issue that we could eliminate individual systems as a root cause. There are too many setup variables reported, from Mac to PC, various hard drive configurations, processors, RAM amounts, etc., all displaying the same issue.

Furthermore, everyone seems to be saying CS4 worked no problems. This again suggests that the system setups are fine, and that CS5 has some kind of issue as it relates to graphic movement.

As to the below. I do have some of what you mentioned, however, nothing that seems unusual or anything ID & the computer shouldn't be able to handle. I will see if I can post a couple pages to my site. I'll repost that info...

[Peter Spier]

cspann wrote:

It seems we keep looking at the individual machines for the cause, and I understand that inclination, however, the only program struggling on my machine is ID CS5. I think we have enough reports of this issue that we could eliminate individual systems as a root cause. There are too many setup variables reported, from Mac to PC, various hard drive configurations, processors, RAM amounts, etc., all displaying the same issue.

We have less than a dozen users reporting what you are seeing, not hundreds, or perhaps thousands by now, that we would expect from a general bug. I'm not saying there isn't something about CS5 that is a problem, but it most likley is isolated to some particular set of hardware software configurations that trigger it.

[Digmar]

Yea, I cant argue with that if there are only a dozen reports.

[Digmar]

Here are a couple pages that are sticky. I'd give you more, but the files are just too big. http://www.digitalmarketing1.com/Page-15-16-Folder.zip

[Peter Spier]

I can't say I'm seeing any major slowdown in the pages you sent, though there doese seem to be a VERY short lag between selecting a frame and having it start to move. Once moving it is normal.

I exported to .idml and opened that in both CS4 and CS5 and the action is definitiely smotther in CS4 for this file. HOWEVER, I have plenty of other files that DON't exhibit this "stickiness" in CS5, both my own and files others have sent, so I think it has to be related to something in the file itself. My instinict is that it may be to do with all the .eps links. Resaving those as PDF or native .ai or .psd might improve things.

[Guest]

I've tried other mice, plus using the pad on my laptop all with the same results.  I've uploaded a page with a single graphic.  http://www.3rdpath.com/testFolder.zip

cspann, I downloaded your file and actually didn't really have the same problem.  Resizing windows was a mess, but I was able to move the graphics around with not too much stickiness.  Not as bad as what I'm experiencing with my files.

[Digmar]

adamgordon,

No problem moving your image in Typical Display mode, super sticky in High Res Display on this end as well. Yes, resizing windows in my file is brutal.

[Peter Spier]

adamgordon wrote:

I've tried other mice, plus using the pad on my laptop all with the same results.  I've uploaded a page with a single graphic.  http://www.3rdpath.com/testFolder.zip

cspann, I downloaded your file and actually didn't really have the same problem.  Resizing windows was a mess, but I was able to move the graphics around with not too much stickiness.  Not as bad as what I'm experiencing with my files.

OK, this one is really bad.

That's one complex .ai file, but it does work fine in CS4.

Do you mind if I send this to Adobe?

[Digmar]

I'm glad you do see some lag. Magnify that by a factor and you will get the picture of how bad it is on this end. Keep in mind that I send two pages of an 80 page catalog, so, what I've done is to break down the sections in 15-20 page increments in an indb file. So the quantity of image links in 15-20 pages is substantial indeed.

Honestly, I'm not questioning you thoughts of resaving images files, which may be correct, however, to resave literally thousands of eps files I have for dozens of clients into another format would be an unacceptable fix. I would simply revert back to CS4 before doing that, but understand you are only trying to offer possible fixes.

I have another project. A walking map for a major city. It is one giant .ai file, and talk about sticky. I actually cannot manage the sticky jumping at all. It is entirely uncontrollable. I have to use the arrow keys to make small movements until I get to where I need to be. That is one project I have been forced to revert to CS4. 

I know this issue isn't your fault and you are only trying to help, which is sincerely appreciated, but I spent too much money on CS5 to have to revert to CS4 to complete jobs. 

[Edgard Melara]

Peter, interesting thought, but I never use eps files anymore. I always convert to .ai. I only place .ai, .psd or .pdf images in InDesign CS5.

[Guest]

OH, that reminds me - one difference that's new in CS5 is the instant display of dragged or transformed objects, vs. the former "patient user" mode of pressing on the selection for a moment before dragging to activate the display, or dragging without delay to minimize redraw during dragging. This sounds like an excellent place for the problem to come from.

That sounded like a good place for the problem to have come from. Expect, on my single image example, if you go to high quality display, then add some text in a single box.  That text box is also sticky.  I'm not even moving the image.

[Guest]

Peter, please send it to Adobe.  I know the problem is not specific to that file, I have way more complex files than that one, of course with the same issues.  Unless there's some specific thing in common with the dozen or so .ai files I tested, such as masks.  But as you said, CS4 handles it fine.

[Michael R. Davis]

I'm having this issue with CS5 InDesign as well, it is nearly impossible to move graphics and elements in some of our files.

It seems to have something to do with linked graphics, but what I don't know. I just installed 7.0.3 patch and it is no better.

[Jeremy AB]

Installing the 7.0.3 update and will be working on my brochure later tonight. Going to see if there are any speed improvements and also the mixed-math page size bug I found a few weeks ago.

Note to Adobe: while I appreciate the updates I don't appreciate the vague list of "what's new" and then the link to the full details going to nothing.

UPDATE: and I can't even install the update (through App Manager), just like the Illustrator update before. It just says "Please fix the problems below" and below it "Installation Failed". Very helpful!

Will try a few things here, hope I don't have to reinstall.

UPDATE 2: even though it said it failed, the app reads as version 7.0.3, but in the about box it says 7.0.2, and the App Manager says I'm up to date. Off to reinstall now!

[cmyck]

@Jeremy

I got the exact same issue.

What do you expect, it's Adobe. *sigh*

[Jeremy AB]

Ended up reinstalling. Haven't noticed if it helps with the performance issues yet but I haven't had a chance to get into it much yet. I also had to reinstall Photoshop last night because it's also behaving strangely, so I hope that fixed it. I've lost count the number of times I've had to reinstall Photoshop and I know I've reinstalled Illustrator and InDesign 3 times each now.

[cmyck]

I re-installed as well. That fixed the error whilst upgrading to 7.0.3. Now the app shows 7.0.3 in the about box.

But if I check for updates with the Adobe Application Manager (seletc Update... from the Help menu)  it still lists the upgrade for ID 7.0.3.

This update really is as messy as it can get. Jeez!

[Stix_Hart]

I haven't read all this post but on another thread that strated off very similar someone had a huge improvement once they got rid of their linked eps files........

[peter_minneapolis]

cspann wrote:

Here are a couple pages that are sticky. I'd give you more, but the files are just too big. http://www.digitalmarketing1.com/Page-15-16-Folder.zip

OK, comparing the movement when I select all on a page and drag or use arrow or shift+arrow, CS5 is a bit jerky vs. CS4. On my 17" pre-unibody MBPro, with 4GB RAM, 512 MB VRAM, GeForce 8600M GT, 1680 x 1050. I'm missing most of your fonts, so there's probably some computation lag for substitution. However, I wouldn't say the jerkiness is a production-killer, just annoying if you're used to smooth movement.

I can't guess what the behavior is for a large open document that contains these two pages - perhaps the performance really slows down.

I did get a missing plug-in message on opening in CS5, for InBooklet SE, which is a long-dropped plug-in, around CS2 or so. The document history that appears when you do Cmd+About InDesign on the InDesign menu shows the missing plug-in, too in CS5, but not in CS4; this is probably due to the expected dropping of plug-in references when exporting to IDML or INX exchange formats.

There's a very long document history in this dialog box. I was going to say that perhaps the many iterations of change over the versions might have something to do with the problem, and to suggest exporting the CS5 file to IDML and opening that, to perhaps clean up any problematic stuff; however, I just did it, and I see the same jerkiness, so that saves you a step of troubleshooting. This file IS HAUNTED!

I suggest filing a bug report at Adobe - Feature Request/Bug Report Form, and provide the file. Perhaps cut it down to one page; I get the same problem with only one page.

I didn't try deleting all the pasteboard objects - perhaps this is a source of difference between CS4 and CS5. It's worth a try; the info would be useful in your bug report, if it makes a difference. If it is one of the sources of the problem, you could try placing all pasteboard objects on one or more hidden layers; there's less to redraw.

OH, that reminds me - one difference that's new in CS5 is the instant display of dragged or transformed objects, vs. the former "patient user" mode of pressing on the selection for a moment before dragging to activate the display, or dragging without delay to minimize redraw during dragging. This sounds like an excellent place for the problem to come from.

One other thought - your earlier posts made me think that there were only graphics on the problem pages, but the sample has lots of text. In addition to the other text-related display issues I mentioned, consider testing with and without live spell checking enabled; it's another computation sink. And, also, nested styles, especially GREP styles.

As to the lack of reports of the problem, it could be due to not noticing or caring, or not having content that triggers it.

One last idea - recreate the pages from scratch in a new document - recreate the layout, guides, placeholders, styles, etc - copy/paste the text, link the graphics from the sources, and compare. Perhaps there's some legacy junk in there. On the same thought wave as exporting to interchange, consider exporting to tagged text, or XML, from CS4 and opening in CS5.

That's all I can think of.

HTH

Regards,

Peter

_______________________

Peter Gold

KnowHow ProServices

[Digmar]

Peter,

Phew, great post. I'm gonna have to read though that one a couple times to work it all out...