Disappearing lines

Contributor ,
Sep 03, 2022 Sep 03, 2022

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Screenshot 2022-09-03 204447.png

When I made the letter marked with green a drop cap (applied both character style and paragraph style, the drop cap height being defined in the paragraph style, and the drop cap font, and tracking in the character style) the bottom 2 rows in the last column of the second page disappeared.

If rows disappear as a result of changes that I make in the spread, they always disappear at the bottom.

Sometimes changing he position of my pull quotes vertically "resets" the copy text and the disappeared lines come back, but often they don't.

I have a somewhat unusual setup that have been quite disapproved of in the community, it is described in this thread:

Solved: Re: How to draw everything on baseline grid withou... - Page 3 - Adobe Support Community - 1...

But, after re-reading my tweaks in the read, I realized that in terms of alignment issues I did not solve anything, the only thing I achieved is to draw more precisely on the document grid.

However my setup now forces me for some reason into an odd lines logic.

Some elements need to be moved vertically up and down (image captions and pull quotes) in order to get the offsets right and even.

For example, the caption of the bottom left image had to be moved to the top of the image because at the bottom it's impossible to get the same offsets like at the other image caption because the text is aligned to baseline grid.

There is overset text (marked with green) so the 2 lines shouldn't have disappeared. (This happens often with layout change.)

Screenshot 2022-09-03 210824.png

Is there anything weird with my setup? (not sure is everything necessary to determine this is visible on the screenshot below):

Screenshot 2022-09-03 211806.png

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Community Expert , Sep 04, 2022 Sep 04, 2022

@Chris P. Bacon said:

"That is not causing the disappearing lines."

 

Not true. Indeed it is. You have set the Keep Options to "Keep with Next: 3 lines".

Go back to default that is "Keep with Next: 0 lines".

 

Look into this sample where the left sample is done with 0 lines and the right sample is done with 3 lines:

KeepWithNext-0-vs-3-lines.PNG

 

FWIW: That you turned off the option "Keep with Previous" has nothing to do with "Keep with Next".

Two different options. Turning off "Keep with Previous" does not turn off "Keep

...

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Contributor ,
Sep 03, 2022 Sep 03, 2022

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the red lines are the baselines

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Contributor ,
Sep 03, 2022 Sep 03, 2022

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Update: if I start typing to fill the empty 2 rows, they fill be filled. But the end of those 2 rows after the disappearance is not the end of the text, because there is overset text. 

I just thought someone encountered "disappearing lines" previously, and knows what causes them.

Thanks in advance.

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Contributor ,
Sep 03, 2022 Sep 03, 2022

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This might disorientate me when typing in InCopy? I don't know.

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Community Expert ,
Sep 03, 2022 Sep 03, 2022

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It looks to me like you are still wasting time trying to copy fit dummy text, and that you have a keep option applied in your paragraph style that requires at least two lines to remain together at the end of the paragraph, which is waht forces the last two lines to move to the next column (your overset).

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Contributor ,
Sep 04, 2022 Sep 04, 2022

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I don't have keep options enabled for my copy (paragraph style):

Screenshot 2022-09-04 163201.png

That is not causing the disappearing lines.

 

 

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Community Expert ,
Sep 04, 2022 Sep 04, 2022

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@Chris P. Bacon said:

"That is not causing the disappearing lines."

 

Not true. Indeed it is. You have set the Keep Options to "Keep with Next: 3 lines".

Go back to default that is "Keep with Next: 0 lines".

 

Look into this sample where the left sample is done with 0 lines and the right sample is done with 3 lines:

KeepWithNext-0-vs-3-lines.PNG

 

FWIW: That you turned off the option "Keep with Previous" has nothing to do with "Keep with Next".

Two different options. Turning off "Keep with Previous" does not turn off "Keep with Next".

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender
( Adobe Community Professional )

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Contributor ,
Sep 04, 2022 Sep 04, 2022

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Thanks.

I thought that keep with previous is a function of keep with next but it was not greyed out so it indeed isn't.

Great, solved!

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Contributor ,
Sep 04, 2022 Sep 04, 2022

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I am using text written by George Orwell, so it's real, it's just not mine. It's not dummy text and not latin.

I am just using it to figure out my design with.

I am unable to write my content first. I will adapt the content to the design. 

But I know that many people disagree:

Greeking Versus Designing with Actual Content :: UXmatters

However I know about the issue so I will eventually switch over when I will see what is the issue with it.

Thank you for bringing it to my attention anyway.

I made my websites also with a design first, content after approach, it's a different concept.

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Contributor ,
Sep 04, 2022 Sep 04, 2022

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For me copyfitting means fitting copy text to the design.

Maybe big companies like The New Yorker can afford to fit design to the content because they have a team of designers and lots of resources, but fitting design to content it's too expensive man-hours for me at the moment.

Or maybe what you said about designing with my original copy is unrelated, for you?

Basically I have to be copyfitting to my printing budget, so perhaps that is why I am fitting copy text to design.

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Community Expert ,
Sep 04, 2022 Sep 04, 2022

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Copy fitting to a design is perfectly acceptable, but it means adjusting things like tracking and line breaks, as well as potentially editing the text to make it all fit as you want it to. What yo are doing now is creating a "look" for your publication and trying to fit any copy that is not final is just spinning your wheels and will have NO RELATIONSHIP to waht you will need to do with the real thing.

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Contributor ,
Sep 04, 2022 Sep 04, 2022

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I suspect that the disappearing lines are cause by the odd lines logic that is forced by my fixed layout (but it shouldn't be so), for example each of my columns must have an odd number of lines in order to maintain my even spacings, offsets.

But I also mentioned that when I move elements up and down within the copy text, like the pull quote object for example, that sometimes brings back the disappeared lines.

 

 

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Contributor ,
Sep 04, 2022 Sep 04, 2022

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"utter silence that is [3 lines break] imposed on"

The break of 3 lines happened in the middle of a sentence.

 

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Contributor ,
Sep 04, 2022 Sep 04, 2022

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Sorry I realized that i accidentally reintroduced the latin text on that spread.

I normally use english text now.

I corrected it.

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Contributor ,
Sep 04, 2022 Sep 04, 2022

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Look what happens when I replaced the latin copy text from the right spread with the english copy text from the left spread:

2 lines missing again at the bottom left.

The text is continuous though if you can read it.

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Contributor ,
Sep 04, 2022 Sep 04, 2022

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Screenshot 2022-09-04 174247.png

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Contributor ,
Sep 04, 2022 Sep 04, 2022

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Now 3 lines missing.

And the seetings for that text frame:

Screenshot 2022-09-04 174738.png

Do you think it's something with the hyphenation settings?

Screenshot 2022-09-04 174854.png

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