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Answered

Export to PDF causes blacks to go grey.

Forum|Forum|14 years ago
August 31, 2011
11 replies
53128 views

Hello,

I have been dealing with an issue involving the way InDesign exports to PDF. In images and boxes drawn in InDesign the black value is being reduced to 95% while the text remains full black. I thought it was a printer issue but I looked more carefully at the PDF and sure enough it's in the image I outputted to PDF format. How would it be possible that the blacks in images and drawn boxes could loose the 100% black but not the text? Do I have a bad install or just a setting misplaced?

I am running CS5.5 with all the latest updates on a brand new Mac Book Pro.

Thanks,

Brett

Correct answer rob day

Very simple solution!

Right, most press CMYK profiles preview black + CMY differently than black only, which is what happens on an offset press. But a rich black mix would create a registration or trapping problem with small- to medium-sized text.

M

MrBB Print

Inspiring

Rob, I'm certain this is something within InDesign. I have other black (100K) objects that were created in InDesign and they export to PDF as 100K. Adobe has done something "clever" here in how it treats imported graphics.

I did a simple copy from Illustrator and paste into InDesign; exported this to PDF and the pasted graphic is 100K.

Ok, the dog has a bone now, so I'm determined to find out what they are doing. At least I know it's not me.

Thanks

rob day

Community Expert

Can you share the files or at least the problem PDF?

Adobe has done something "clever" here in how it treats imported graphics.

It would be expected behavior for a placed object with a color profile that conflicts with the ID document's profile to change output values. The fact that cutting and pasting solves your problem indicates it is a conflicting profile causing the change

M

MrBB Print

Inspiring

Rob, can I send you an email at your location. I want to include some screen shots and it would be easier in a traditional email.

S

sdfredfhghg

Participant

Ahh I found the solution.

Simple, just dont use the default black in the palette. create a new color swatch with C100M100Y100K100.

Your PDF appears perfect.

rob day

Community Expert

That's the same as Registration and would be a problem on an offset press.

M

MrBB Print

Inspiring

I'm having this InDesign to PDF problem. I have to have a black as a 100K element in the layout - it's used for Pantone printing and therefore when the printer makes the plates it must fill at 100% not a screened value of black.

I have read everything in this post and nothing fixes the problem.

I'm on a Mac (Sierra), CC latest version all apps. I'm placing an object from Illustrator as an AI file. It's created as a 100K black. When I place this into InDesign there is a difference between the placed graphic and text/lines created in InDesign. This is due to the Preferences I have set in ID - not a problem. When I export this file to PDF I'm using High Quality Print because I don't want anything converted to CMYK. When I use Acrobat's Output Preview black is now 90%.

I don't see anywhere here that this problem from 2011 was ever solved.

P

PunkDuck1966

Participant

I had this issue today and found this thread... I found that the solution was to choose Registration rather than Black as the colour.

Peter Spier

Community Expert

Not a good solution if you plan on printing....

alvin_r_henson

Participant

I know this is an old question, but I ran across the same issue today. If your black is set to CMYK (0, 0, 0, 100), it will export to pdf as dark gray. If you change your black to CMYK (60, 40, 40, 100), it will export as black. No need to change any output settings in InDesign. Very simple solution!

rob day

Correct answer

Community Expert

Very simple solution!

Right, most press CMYK profiles preview black + CMY differently than black only, which is what happens on an offset press. But a rich black mix would create a registration or trapping problem with small- to medium-sized text.

M

mevynkerak11

Participant

InDesign Tips | How to Print 'True' Black

M

miqrogroove

Participating Frequently

Here is my solution:

After trying every conceivable combination of settings, I decided there was probably something wrong with the way I imported the original image. I had imported it from a PDF, and perhaps that is where the bug lies with InDesign. Luckily, I still had a copy of the original TIFF from before it was a PDF. I re-imported the image into the indd file and then changed the following settings:

Edit -> Transparency Blend Space -> Document RGB

File -> Export -> Output

Color Conversion -> Convert to Destination (Preserve Numbers)

Destination -> sRGB IEC61966-2.1

Profile Inclusion Policy -> Don't Include Profiles

rob day

Community Expert

File -> Export -> Output
Color Conversion -> Convert to Destination (Preserve Numbers)
Destination -> sRGB IEC61966-2.1
Profile Inclusion Policy -> Don't Include Profiles

The OP's job was printing on an offset press. You've converted your PDF to all sRGB, so if it's output to separations any black objects would print as 4-color not 100% black.

M

miqrogroove

Participating Frequently

Except for the part where it's a 1-bit file and it will print fine. It's too bad this is such a convoluted process.

M

miqrogroove

Participating Frequently

I just now found a setting that fixed this for me.

Edit -> Transparency Blend Space

The default setting was "Document CMYK". Changing it to "Document RGB" solved the problem for me.

Beware the file I'm working on is strictly a black and white (1-bit) TIFF with some text added. Your results may vary!

M

miqrogroove

Participating Frequently

Now I'm finding that the PDF created using "Document RGB" looks fine on its own, but if I add it to another existing PDF it ends up looking grey again. This is so confusing!

M

miqrogroove

Participating Frequently

I seem to be having this same problem with the InDesign CS6 demo.

Did anyone figure out how to get it to export files correctly?

A

Anonymous

Thats a very odd problem. Just out of interest you haven't changed your transparency blend space options to RGB have you?

Just a thought, but that can cause screwy results.

You could always go old school. Export an EPS and distill it. Do they still make distiller?

Cheers.

Colin Flashman

Community Expert

I've tried to replicate the fault here and the only way i can come close to doing this is: creating a new WEB document (rather than print document) and then preparing PDFs. Can't imagine something like this being overlooked, but that's the only way.

Is the OP able to package up the file using the package option from the file menu, and zip those files (plus a PDF made using the indesign file) and upload it somewhere... maybe using yousendit or something and then posting that yousendit link? We'd need to see what's being done because there's no way that artwork with vectors as taken in the OP's screengrab should produce a 5mb PDF.

If the answer wasn't in my post, perhaps it might be on my blog at colecandoo!

Peter Spier

Community Expert

I'd like to see a sample file, too.

Peter Spier

Community Expert

Sorry it took so long, got tied up yesterday. Here is the sample file with the PDF compressed on a yousendit link. It is just under 5mb and I checked and the intent of the file is set to print.

Go here to download the file:

https://www.yousendit.com/sharedFolder?phi_action=app/orchestrateSharedFolder&id=mbkx4fZ7uHd_p77ZNEG6DnkP8hwopPzEiNKn18ENQNY

I have several other working on the problem now and they are all scratching their heads.

Thanks,

Brett

The PDF in your package reads fine here, and matches the colors in the .indd file perfectly. The graphic on the left on the second page is a four-color black starting out, as is the type in the logo on the lower right. Everything on page 1 is K-only in both ID and your PDF.

Peter Spier

Community Expert

Also, are there color objects inthe file? RGB Blacks?

BW_EllisAuthor

Known Participant

Everyhting in the file is CMYK or Greyscale, the problem doesn't seem to care. The real mystery to me is that the drawn object and images appear correctly in InDesign but not in the PDF version. I am using the Highest Print settings without any downsampling or compression. The file size is coming out to 4 or 5 mb for a two sided business card (which is pretty big) but the shades are still off. I remeasured it in Photoshop and 100% CMYK is rendering to about 92% in the PDF version.

Still a mystery.

Brett

Peter Spier

Community Expert

"Highest Print" settings does not correspond to any of the standard presets. I need to know exactly what is used, if one of the regular presets, or what you have in the Output pane of the export dialog.

What do you see in the file if you roll over the black objects that are output at 95% if you open the Separations Preview in ID?

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