file size!!

[Stathis0101]

Hello again,

I am working on a brochure for my company (in InDesign) now I noticed that when exporting as pdf the file size is really big (more than 100 MB) even when saving as smallest file size. We are talking about A4 and at the moment I created about 8 pages with some photos and text. The images I use are tiff files. May that be the problem?

[Test Screen Name]

Did you look at the total size of your image files? Certainly, it's usually the images which add most of the size. But you can find out with Acrobat Pro. 

Go to File > Save as Other > Optimized PDF.

DO NOT SAVE.

Instead, use the Audit Space Usage button.

You can post a screen shot of what this shows, if you'd like us to explain some of it.

[Derek Cross]

TIFFs are large and the difference in quality IMO is imperceptible. Try native PSD or compressed (to 8 or 10) JPGs, you'll see a great saving.

[Derek Cross]

One other thing to check in the Links panel, is the Effective PPI of each image which should be around 300–400PPI, if they are significantly larger, resize them in Photoshop.

[Eugene Tyson]

Saving as Smallest Size PDF should reduce the size of the PDF.

Did you tick the option to Crop Data to Frames.

Just the bottom right one in the screengrab.

[Stathis0101]

First: thank you all for your suggestions!

The problem was with the tiffs. I tested it by duplicating one page and converted all the photos to png´s. Then saved the identic pages as pdf, one with tiffs, one with png´s and...tataaa. The tiff one was 20!! MB and the png one was 230!! kB

The reason why I saved my pictures in as tiff files was that my project is going to be printed. And for the print it has to be in CMYK. png files cannot be saved in CMYK mode. Is it ok to use pngs? When exporting as PDF will they be converted?

Thank a lot!

[Derek Cross]

This is a bizarre workflow. In any case, you should work in RGB color mode.

You'd better start again with the original images.

[rob day]

 Is it ok to use pngs? When exporting as PDF will they be converted?

When you export to PDF the placed image file format doesn’t matter—the image pixels are exported based on your Export Compression tab settings. If you inspect an image in AcobatPro there would be no way of knowing what its original file format was—this image was placed as a layered PSD:

An image can contain excess metadata, which in some cases can bloat the PDF. There’s nothing wrong with 24-bit PNGs but they can’t contain layers, so PSDs would have some advantages.

Here’s a thread on the metadata bloat problem:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/huge-pdf-file-after-exporting-from-project-with-...

[Eugene Tyson]

Hi Rob

I'd advocate that if there are text layers, vector shapes/masks in the file that TIFF and PSD not be used unless outputting from Photoshop.

If placing these into InDesign - the text layers, vector shapes/masks are rasterised to the native resolution of the the Photoshop file.

For this reason - PDF format (with Photoshop Editing Capabilities) would be the best format - over TIff or PSD.

What do you think?

[rob day]

Hi Eugene, yes if there are text layers, I was assuming the problem TIFF was an image.

The Metadata problem has come up before, and an 8 page ID file exporting as 100MB would be unusual unless Compression is turned off on export.

Here’s an example I’ved saved—a 1 page ID doc with a single layered blank PSD at 1920 x 1080 pixels. The PSD is 62MB and the ID file is 256MB! The ancestor metadata is coming in with the PSD and boating the ID file—the metadata will get transferred to a PDF.

[Eugene Tyson]

Yikes - and the image is only 67mb - or so it says.

Is it not taking the compression into account - I imagine. 

Bug or feature though?

[rob day]

No it’s metadata. If I check File Info on the Photoshop file the Raw Data is too large to display:

If I run the Javascript from the post I linked to, the file size goes from 67MB to 158KB:

The problem is InDesign will pickup the metadata and it will export to a PDF. It can be pretty stubborn—a Save As doesn’t always remove the excess data, so the script might be needed.

[Eugene Tyson]

I thought the issue was the size of the exported PDF from InDesign?

If the tiff is 20mb it's not that large.

Saving to PNG is going to shift your CMYK images to RGB so you could lose some colour information.

It's best to leave images as RGB in the format you received - unless you need to make amends. 

I'm really confused - is it the final PDF size you want to reduce or the size of the TIFF files?

And why does it matter?

[Willi Adelberger]

In InDesign never place PNG or SVG for print files as they do not support color management.

Use JPG,, if no transparency is used, PSD if transparency is used, PDP/PDF (Standard Photoshop PDF) if text and/or vectors are included. To leave the images in RGB is fine in most cases. If the printer needs CMYK data convert upon PDF export, not before.

If you use vectors, use AI or PDF/X-4 in CMYK. Never EPS.

For print files file size is secundary, important is quality, that excludes PNG and SVG files.

[rob day]

 as they do not support color management.

Hi Willi, starting with CC2015, 24-bit PNGs can be fully color managed. Here I’ve assigned ProPhoto RGB to a PNG in Photoshop and the InDesign Links panel recognizes the embedded profile of the placed PNG:

If I Export the page to default PDF/X-4, the PNG’s image attributes remain unchanged. If I inspect the bitmap image with Acrobat’s Object Inspector—ColorSpace ICCBasedRGB ProPhoto, 24-bit color, 144ppi Effective Resolution.

The Output Preview Simulation Profile defaults to the PDF/X-4 Output Intent—Coated GRACoL CMYK, so the ProPhoto RGB preview is brought into the GRACoL CMYK gamut :

[Eugene Tyson]

I thought PNG could embed an icc profile.

I don't think it matters as once it's converted to PNG the image gets converted to cmyk using the same color engine.

SVG I agree with, as black would be converted to cmyk black

[rob day]

I thought PNG could embed an icc profile.

It can, see my last post— I think that change was made starting with CC2015, before that ID ignored embedded PNG profiles.

[rob day]

Can you Package the brochure and share it via Dropbox or your CC account?