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General InDesign CS5.5 EPub Issues/Thoughts

Forum|Forum|14 years ago
May 5, 2011
7 replies
41223 views

I've been playing with the EPub export feature of CS5.5 for the past day, and have a question as well as a few thoughts/feature requests. I wonder if it would be useful to have a general thread for the new EPub feature for a little while, since it will be new to most people?

In any case, my questions: 1) Is it possible to set an object to -not- be included in the export? I assumed this would be an option in the "Object Export Options" dialogue, but it doesn't seem to be. Is this option hidden somewhere else, or is there a workaround? I have a number of objects that are used to add visual interest on the printed layout but that don't make any sense to include in an EPub/HTML export.

2) When I get to the EPub export box there's nothing in the "Unique Identifier" field. I thought I should have the option of using one created by InDesign automatically?

My thoughts: although it's a very welcome upgrade, does it feel to anyone else as though it's a bit half-baked? For example, the new object export options don't seem to be included in the object styles, so they have to be changed object-by-object, which isn't very nice for longer layouts.

Similarly, you can't save different EPub/HTML export settings, which seems like a pretty basic feature to expect.

Finally, the fact that endnotes aren't supported has been a glaring issue for a while now, but it's causing new problems now that EPub/HTML exports are easier. In print endnotes that aren't 'live' are only an issue for the layout person; in HTML 'dead' notes with no hyperlinks are pretty embarrassing.

How have other people been finding the new EPub/HTML export features?

This topic has been closed for replies.

J

johnmacg

Known Participant

I’m a small traditional paper book publisher who wants to convert some my back catalogue into ebooks. And to release both paper and ebook versions of future books.

I’ve been using InDesign CS3 for traditional book publishing. It does the job well and there’s been no compelling reason to upgrade. That is, until I went to a recent Adobe roadshow and heard of the wonders of InDesign 5.5 for ebook production. OK – it was time to upgrade and wet my feet in the ebook field!

Keen to get started, I took a look at the programme’s built-in Help. Not helpful. As far as working with ebooks is concerned, the Help menu in InDesign 5.5 seems to be mainly a list of choices to make when exporting to the epub format. No explanation of the significance of these. There were links to articles, extremely limited videos, and forums such as this one. All very well, and appreciated, but essentially that’s an Adobe cop-out.

Most of the information and discussion about CS5.5’s epub world relates to fancy Wired Magazine-type publications or all-singing and dancing apps for iPads. Or existing epublishers are making comparisons with earlier InDesign versions and discussing thingsthat are only comprehensible to people ‘in the know’. Very little is helpful to someone who is starting from scratch and wants to produce an ebook version of a traditional, text-oriented book.

Where is the basic information that tells me how to get started and how I should tweak an existing InDesign file in order to produce an acceptable ebook? Essentially all I want in my end product is a graphic of the book’s cover, then the title page, imprint page, table of contents, foreword and 23 chapters of text. In other words, I want to produce a simple product like the latest James Patterson novel at iBooks.

Where can I get this basic information? There’s stuff out there relating to earlier versions of InDesign, but I don’t want to go near it, because the latest version is supposed to have been extensovely re-jigged. I’m not into voluntary confusion.

‘From the ground up’ instructions for CD5.5 seem don’t seem to be available from Adobe. Third parties who write books and articles, and produce videos about InDesign aren’t up to speed yet.

It’s five months since CS5.5 was released. Considering that Adobe has pushed ebook production as a compelling reason for upgrading to CS5.5, they should have provided comprehensive support material from Day One. They should have worked with third party book and video producers so their material would be available from Day One.

I’m not a happy camper. Sure, I’ll probably work all this out eventually. But I have more profitable things to do with my time.

With luck I’ve missed something and there is a manual out there – specifically for InDesign CS5 – provided free by Adobe, as essential support to what is one of the world’s more expensive software programs.

M

marcusstringer

Inspiring

I sent you a PM.

J

jjsemple

Participating Frequently

Why a PM? Don't you suppose the rest of us might like to see the Adobe tools perform?

There seem to be two kinds of eBooks in the iBookstore. There're the...

simple product like the latest James Patterson novel at iBooks.

...that johnmacg spoke about in his previous post.

And there're the — what I call — enhanced eBooks. The best way to describe these is by example. SO, go to iTunes and download Amelia Bedelia. It's a kids book; you don't have to buy it, just the test pages.

What's the difference?

1. The "simple" eBooks johnmacg refers to:

Have the controls built into the book pages. Yes, you can summon/dismiss them by tapping, but there's a place for them on the header line, as part of the book
Allow you to increase the type size by selecting the little A, big A feature. They do not allow spreading finger enlargement.
Display bread crumbs at the page bottom for zipping through the pages.
Impose margins that take up a lot of top, outside, bottom space.
Trigger a link to a standard TOC text when you touch the TOC icon.
Change page count as you enlarge/reduce font size.

2. The "enhanced" type books I refer to:

Have controls that appear/disappear above the trim line of the books. They are not part of the "book" real estate.
Allow you to size (reduce/enlarge) by spreading fingers. The little A, big A feature does not appear. The entire page enlarges.
Display thumbnails, not bread crumbs for book navigation (makes sense because these books are visually rich and frequently have a lower page content).
Do not impose margins; you can have images into margin and beyond, into what would be considered the "bleed" area in a print book.
Does not trigger a link to a standard TOC, but to rows of thumbnail icons for each page.
Do not change page count as you enlarge/reduce font size

Unlike johnmacg, I'm interested in category 2 — what I call the enhanced eBook. And I can produce books like this up to a point. That's because it seems to me that they must start life as PDFs and somehow get converted into ePubs to be acceptable to the iBookstore.

We have created prototypes in inDesign, output them to PDF, then loaded them onto an iPad on the PDF tab, of course. What we get is a book that looks like and performs exactly like Amelia Bedelia. Same features I enumerated above.

What we don't get is how to create the page paradigm, with the shadow demarcation in the gutter and the supplemental pages on the outer edges. Does this have to be designed as an inDesign master page?

We also can't duplicate the "page turning" transition, even though it is available in the Page Transitions menu, but for SWF only (thanks a lot Adobe!). But these are minor to solving the problem of how one converts — if my startiing-life-as-a-PDF hypothesis is correct — a PDF with all the "enhanced" functions into an Apple acceptable ePub? Do we need a programmer? Can we do it alone withinDesign? How do we do it?

I have whole books waiting to go — text over illustrations, text alone, illustrations alone —, but we don't know how to do the rest. Someone must know, because we see the two types of books in the iBookstore. We've downloaded them, compared them. Feature-wise, our PDFs match Amelia Bedelia 95%.

Why is there no information from Adobe on the types of books in the iBookstore, how to create each one step-by-step, how to test and error check them so they meet Apple standards, and finally how to load them to the iBookstore?

I second jonmacg. CS5.5 is a big disappontment, not because it can't do these things, but because even after five months, we still don't know WHAT it can do?

PS. I don't want to pay someone, or anyone, $3000 for training. I've already figured out most of it. Selling an expensive product and then trying to gouge us for training is not acceptable. We want a top-down statement of the kinds of eBooks this product can produce, plus step-by-step instructions for each.

C

Command_Q

Participating Frequently

I continue to toil with imbedding .mp4 files into ePub files using InDesign 5.5 to no avail. The ePub formats correctly per my articles panel and I even have the page breaks and TOC links all functioning properly but when it comes to playing any video in the ePub through iBooks the video poster is there but the videos just will not play. Given this groups collective genius might anyone have some insight on how I need to dial the mp4 in? Specific codec issues?

Thanks in advance for all of your time!

s2japhil

BobLevine

Community Expert

Mp4 must have h264 encoding as far as I know.

Bob

C

Command_Q

Participating Frequently

My testing shows that MP4 (or altenatively m4v) works well in iBooks.

http://indesignsecrets.com/picking-the-best-video-format-for-digital-publishing.php

You can read more about embedding audio and video in iOS and on a Nook in an eBook published by Elizabeth Castro:

http://www.elizabethcastro.com/epub/

Steve,

Thanks again for the previous help. I had an error I wanted to throw by you. Recently producing an ePub file out of Indesign 5.5 and I've been getting an error. Upon opening the ePub in iBooks the first page contains error text as follows:

This page contains the following errors:

error on line 36 at column 80: Entity 'nbsp' not defined error on line 56 at column 303: Entity 'nbsp' not defined error on line 57 at column 68: Entity 'nbsp' not defined

Below is a rendering of the page up to the first error.

After which my document starts with no visible errors. Breaking open the ePub file in Dream Weaver I can see nothing wrong and upon inspecting the code I receive no errors. I've reviewed the lines specifically mentioned in the error and other then an em-dash at line 36 I have absolutely no clue where the errors are coming from. Any insight you or anyone else can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again

Command_Q

S

Silver Plum Digital

Participant

Is there a way to get "Overlay Creator" content to an EPUB, HTML, PDF, etc.?

BobLevine

Community Expert

Is there a way to get "Overlay Creator" content to an EPUB, HTML, PDF, etc.?

No.

Bob

AnneMarie Concepcion

Community Expert

Interesting.

I'm curious, which multimedia ebooks that are on the iPad now are you trying to learn how to create? Any favorite titles?

Are you creating interactive, rich media PDFs of your books at all?

AM

J

jjsemple

Participating Frequently

Purchasing a iPad this week, I hope to start exploring what's out there. So far, I've mostly been looking at tutorials and training videos to get a handle on the possibilities.

I think Bob raises some good points about what clients will settle for and also about the labor-intensive nature of the process. We have to start working with the tools and testing iterations on an iPad. Hope the encouragment we're getting on this forum and Lynda tutorials like yours will help us accomplish this.

Derek Cross

Community Expert

You might consider attending this two-day online webinar: http://indesign2ipad-eorg.eventbrite.com/

Derek

AnneMarie Concepcion

Community Expert

Hey Bob, that Terry White video is strictly about EPUB. It does not cover DPS at all.

JSemple, everything that Terry showed in that video you linked to is possible with InDesign CS5.5 and EPUB (reflowable) eBooks. Which parts of it don't seem believable to you?

One of the things he showed was how to include an embedded video. At this point, only Apple's iBook application supports that. (Not Kindle. The Nook is beta testing). But note the video is titled "InDesign CS5.5 Publishing EPUBs to the iBook with Video."

AM

BobLevine

Community Expert

Then I'm thinking about a different video where he touches on the new features in CS5.5....I'll see if I can find a link.

Ah...here we go: http://tv.adobe.com/watch/cs-55-design-premium-feature-tour-/design-premium-feature-tour-overview

Bob

J

jjsemple

Participating Frequently

Would love a course on creating eBooks for iPad (ePub format) and other tablets, separate from Digital Magazine (PDF) courses, but covering the same inDesign related material/workflow (Rich Media Foundations, Basic Interactivity, Adding Audio/Video, Advanced Interactivity, Deploying and Distributing) uniquely from the standpoint of ePub.

It seems to me that the ePub market is potentially much larger than the Digital Magazine market; there's a finite number of magazines, but an unlimited number of people toiling in home offices/small businesses who want to create eBooks for iPad, other tablets, and Kindle. Especially interested in finding out about deploying ePub formatted multimedia books to iPad and other tablets without having to go through Adobe or some super-expensive, always-escalating service like Roving Bird?

Right now as guardaroba says, the lines between teh two are blurred. Sure Adobe is raking in teh dough from Martha Stewart and all those big magazine clients, but the real numbers, it would seem to me, are in self-publishing/small publisher ePub platform eBooks — all the issues that are different than print, with an emphasis on multimedia and design.

There is simply no dedicated training out there that I can find.

BobLevine

Community Expert

Have you checked out Lynda.com?

There are some good courses there. This link will get you a free seven day trial: http://bit.ly/fcGpiI

Bob

J

jjsemple

Participating Frequently

Yes, I subscribe to Lynda, already completed the inDesign CS5.5 New Features course. The instructor is great, but the course focus leaves a lot to be desired. It suffers from the same issue this thread raised: a general muddling of Digital Magazine & ePub. Check the course out for yourself. It's an overview, not an in-depth look, which is normal since the release just occured. However, what I find frustrating is that no one — Adobe or other parties — seem to understand that Digital Magazines and ePub eBooks are two different markets.

It's my understanding, after watching Terry White's tutorials, that CS5.5 now allows us to generate full-fledged, multimedia ePub eBooks for iPad/other tablets without having to program, then deploy them without having to go through a lot of expense. It seems that the CS5.5 allows us to do this, but nobody is putting any efort into the various ways these two solutions are different and what those differences mean in terms of using inDesign for each specific purpose.

C

Cari Jansen

Legend

1) You control which objects are included in your EPUB export using the new Articles panel.

see: http://adobe.ly/mRVWYZ

2) The unique identifier field auto-fill

Generally you enter the EPUB isbn here.
However, If you leave this field empty during export InDesign will automatically generate a random Unique Identifier.
If you break open the EPUB file and look at the content.opf file inside you should see something like this:

<dc:identifier>
    urn:uuid:b8123fc9-fbad-4f66-86ae-edbde9159f8f
</dc:identifier>

Hope this helps,

Cari

---

my tweets: carijansen

my web-site: carijansen.com (lots of InDesign stuff on there).

my digital magazine for iPad: Latitude3195

G

guardarobaAuthor

Participating Frequently

Thanks Cari! I'm embarrassed I didn't unzip the EPub to check if it did create a UUID anyway. Actually, the Lynda.com video seems to show a UUID appearing automatically in the export dialogue box, which is why I was confused. It must've been like that in a beta version or something.

As for the articles panel, I had been using the Page Layout ordering option instead of the Articles Panel option. (I still think offering the ability to make objects non-exporting would be helpful for those times when Page Layout ordering makes more sense.)

After playing with the Articles panel a bit, though, I only have more questions. The image I want to exclude is inside an anchored text box (it's a long report, with a table in a text box anchored halfway through the text, and an image inside the text box) and there doesn't seem to be any way to get at anchored objects inside the Articles panel, let alone something -inside- an anchored object.

Am I missing something? Are we expected to break things up into a bunch of text boxes whenever an element should be inserted at a particular point in the text flow and we want to be able to work with it in the Articles panel? I really hope I'm wrong, but so far it seems to be a pretty blunt instrument that's more suited to shorter layouts.

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