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ChristianAaltonen
Known Participant
March 8, 2012
Answered

Get rid of ICC profile

  • March 8, 2012
  • 3 replies
  • 32711 views

Hi there,

I have a bunch of CMYK imges, which was converted from RGB. Some of them are in Euroscale Uncoated V2, some of them are FOGRA 39. I have my CS5 assigned to FOGRA39, so my .indd document is in FOGRA39 ICC profile.I was told by the printer, that I have to get rid of all ICC profiles, because "they can cause possible troubles". So my first question is: If I save the As, with unchecked "include profile", will the colors in the image remain absolutely the same? And what if i have files with 2 assigned ICC profiles as I mentioned abowe?

And finally, if I have my whole CS5 assigned to FOGRA39, how about export the final PDF, if printer does not want any ICCs?

Thanks in advance guys!

    This topic has been closed for replies.
    Correct answer rob day

    So my first question is: If I save the As, with unchecked "include profile", will the colors in the image remain absolutely the same?

    Not necessarily. How ID handles placed images with conflicting profiles depends on how you set the Color Setting’s CMYK Color Management Policy when the document was created. If you chose Preserve Embedded then any placed image with a profile that conflicts with your document's profile will get converted to document CMYK when you export.

    So with Preserve Embedded, if you placed a CMYK image filled with 50% black with a US Coated SWOP profile in your doc that's assigned FOGRA39, the 50% black would get converted to a CMY mix on a PDF/X-a export.

    If you chose Preserve Numbers (Ignore Linked Profiles) or Off, then InDesign would ignore the SWOP profile and the 50% black would export unchanged. If you choose Off, the document get's no assignment and is color managed by the current CMYK working space.

    Also keep in mind that simply opening Color Settings and changing the CM policy doesn't change a document's policy. To change a doc policy you need to check Ask When Opening before opening the doc. In that case you'll get an option to change the existing document policy.

    3 replies

    C
    ChristianAaltonenAuthor
    Known Participant
    March 10, 2012

    Hey,

    thank you guys for your contrubution!

    Let me ask a few more question:

    In real world can happen, that you are preparing document for certain printer, who wants data assigned to FOGRA39. But when you are ready, your boss come and you are told, that your data will be printed by someone else, because he offered better price. So all the source images, which you converted from source RGB profile to destination FOGRA39 have to be converted to another profile, according to the requirement of that new printer. {In case he have different requirements, of course.} I would like just to know, whether I will get different results for:

    • RGB > CMYK01 Profile >  CMYK02 Profile
    • RGB > CMYK02 Profile

    Does each following color profile conversation degrade the data {or color appearance} in any way? Will be the appearance of colors affected when:

    • CMYK01 Profile > CMYK02 Profile >  CMYK01 Profile

    Thank you!

    rob day
    Community Expert
    rob dayCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    March 10, 2012

    To illustrate Peter's point take a saturated color like Adobe RGB 100|100|255. Convert it to US Sheetfed Uncoated and then to US Sheetfed Coated. Take the same color and convert directly to US Sheetfed Coated. The RGB>CMYK>CMYK conversion will get you something like 62|52|4|0, while the direct conversion will be a less clipped and more saturated 71|60|0|0.

    rob day
    Community Expert
    rob dayCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    March 18, 2020

    I have a related problem. I am trying to export from ID - RGB color (Adobe RGB profiles embedded), plain K b/w (images scanned from b/w negatives GRAYSCALE grey gamma 2.2) and cmyk process colours. None of the ID output settings produce the same result as converting the RGB into CMYK in PS and substituting the new files before exporting with no conversion. When exporting from an RGB workspace, the grayscale is washed out if the export output is 'convert to destination'  It mattered not which PDF-X was selected, or none,  or what destination profile (ISO coated V2 300% ECI) was set, or preserve numbers or ignore profiles or not. The color - both RGB and CMYK - are converted just fine, but not the b/w K files because they are also converted to CMYK (000K) and not GRAYSCALE.  I tried sending the pdf unconverted which went through the rip again converting the b/w to CMYK. the result is washed out K again. Does anyone have a fix for this?


    This thread might help:

    https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign/dot-gain-or-gray-gamma/td-p/8365606?page=1

     

    InDesign does not have a grayscale space. Grayscale objects are placed on the K plate, and the values export unchanged when the Output>Destination is set to DocumentCMYK. The Overprint Preview of the K values depends on the document’s CMYK profile or Output Intent Profile (which can’t be Gray Gamma 2.2).

     

     

    rob day
    Community Expert
    rob dayCommunity ExpertCorrect answer
    Community Expert
    March 8, 2012

    So my first question is: If I save the As, with unchecked "include profile", will the colors in the image remain absolutely the same?

    Not necessarily. How ID handles placed images with conflicting profiles depends on how you set the Color Setting’s CMYK Color Management Policy when the document was created. If you chose Preserve Embedded then any placed image with a profile that conflicts with your document's profile will get converted to document CMYK when you export.

    So with Preserve Embedded, if you placed a CMYK image filled with 50% black with a US Coated SWOP profile in your doc that's assigned FOGRA39, the 50% black would get converted to a CMY mix on a PDF/X-a export.

    If you chose Preserve Numbers (Ignore Linked Profiles) or Off, then InDesign would ignore the SWOP profile and the 50% black would export unchanged. If you choose Off, the document get's no assignment and is color managed by the current CMYK working space.

    Also keep in mind that simply opening Color Settings and changing the CM policy doesn't change a document's policy. To change a doc policy you need to check Ask When Opening before opening the doc. In that case you'll get an option to change the existing document policy.

    C
    ChristianAaltonenAuthor
    Known Participant
    March 8, 2012

    Hi Rob,

    thank you for your explanation. It helped me to uderstand more about the color-space-policyes. So I suppose, that in case I will create PDF with images of mixed CMYK profiles, fhe results of the same colors will be different. But please tell me - If all will be assigned to the profile during export, there will be ICC included in the PDF. But this is what my printer does not want...

    To be honest, I do not understand fully when he say, that I should get rid of ICCs. Because when I am converting from camera's RGB to CMYK, i have to choose CMYK profile, which is ICC. So I have to select ICC profile anyway, when converting.

    rob day
    Community Expert
    rob dayCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    March 8, 2012

    But please tell me - If all will be assigned to the profile during export, there will be ICC included in the PDF. But this is what my printer does not want...

    If you use the default PDF/X-1a preset all color except for spot colors will be converted into your document CMYK space, or if there's no assigned profile, the current Working CMYK space. PDF/X-1a does not allow profiles to be embedded—the assumption is all color is in the correct destination CMYK space on export and no further conversions will be necessary. You only need a profile if there's going to be a color conversion.

    PDF/X-1a does include an output intent, which is not the same as a profile. Acrobat can use the output intent for displaying CMYK and it also let's your printer know what profile was used to make the final CMYK conversion. If the job is printing on a coated sheet and they see a newsprint output intent, they would be wise to reject your file.

    Your printer doesn't want to be responsible for making color conversions either on purpose or by accident, so they don't want an embedded profile. If there's a color complaint they can correctly say they output the CMYK values you provided.

    J
    Community Expert
    Jeffrey_SmithCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    March 8, 2012

    I will give you the simplest answer for this project. Export using PDF X-1a. You will not have to change your ID color management settings, you will not have to delete ICC profiles, you will not have to worry about ICC discrepancies, just export and you are done.

    C
    ChristianAaltonenAuthor
    Known Participant
    March 8, 2012

    Jeffrey_Smith wrote:

    I will give you the simplest answer for this project. Export using PDF X-1a. You will not have to change your ID color management settings, you will not have to delete ICC profiles, you will not have to worry about ICC discrepancies, just export and you are done.

    Thank you Jeffrey. It sounds lovely symple! I will just have a look at the specification of this PDF format, just to know what i am exporting and giving to the printer.

    J
    Community Expert
    Jeffrey_SmithCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    March 8, 2012

    A PDF with X-1a compliancy must meet certain criteria: 1.4 compatible, all fonts must be embedded, all color must be gray cmyk or spot, icc profiles can not be included, along with not permitting non-essential elements like annotations or forms. This PDF format is commonly submitted for the following situations: unknown printer specs, printer specifically requires X-1a, or working with a printer system that manages color independently of included icc profiles.

    My suggestion comes from hearing things like "icc profiles can cause possible troubles", but best advice is to ask your print provider their specifications.

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