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Question

How Do I Embed Color Profile into Exported PDF?

Forum|Forum|8 years ago
February 22, 2017
5 replies
17948 views

To begin with, I have experience with color management (assigning, converting, embedding color profiles, rendering intents, all that stuff.) I know how to do it stuff with Photoshop. But I'm having problems understanding how to EMBED a profile in an exported PDF from InDesign CS6. I want to print a long banner at a banner printing company. When I go into Adobe Bridge to see my exported PDF, it shows that it's "UNTAGGED." But I gave it the Destination Profile when I exported it. I thought it would embed. When I send it to the place that prints the banners, they end up with a huge color shift. I think it's because it's UNTAGGED. I'm finding that many of these banner places are unfamiliar with how color management works, let alone profiling their printers. So, to make their lives easier, they just tell their customers to convert to the standard, narrow US Sheetfed Coated profile. Except, I know that their printer can give out a lot more color than that. So, I actually export using a wide gamut CMYK profile and trust their RIP to do the conversion. This way, I'm able to eek out more much color because the RIP has their exact printer profile and it knows how to convert from my wide-gamut profile to their exact printer profile, which has much more color than the standard press profiles.

Here's how I did the export from InDesign under "Export Adobe PDF" windows:

GENERAL
Adobe PDF Present: High Quality Print

Standard: PDF/X-4:2010

Compatibility: Acrobat 7 (PDF 1.6)

OUTPUT

COLOR

Color Conversion: Convert to Destination

Destination: WideGamutCMYK (don't worry about the actual name or the profile not being US Sheetfed or a standard CMYK profiles.)
PDF/X

Output Intent Profile Name: WideGamutCMYK

Again, after this process, the PDF remains untagged. If the profile can be embedded, then I shouldn't have to guess to much about what's going to come out of their printers.

Thanks,

Mike

This topic has been closed for replies.

Danny Whitehead.

Brainiac

Unlike images, PDFs can contain content in a wide variety of colour spaces and profiles. When you export your PDF, under Output, try selecting 'No Colour Conversion' and 'Include All Profiles'. That way, everything gets embedded and the RIP at least knows the source.

But don't count on everything being converted directly to the printer's profile. They may have their RIP set to simulate (and convert all non-CMYK to) the US Sheetfed Coated profile, in the name of lowest common denominator consistency, so you might not be able to access the wider gamut of their printer anyway. Even if you can, using 'WideGamutCMYK' isn't the way to do it.

rob day

Community Expert

When I go into Adobe Bridge to see my exported PDF, it shows that it's "UNTAGGED."

Bridge can't give you accurate profile information about a PDF because PDF allows multiple objects with different color spaces and profiles. You can use AcrobatPro's OutputPreview>Object Inspector to look at the color space and profile of any object.

Standard: PDF/X-4:2010

PDF/X-4 is an offset press standard and requires an Output Intent CMYK profile and all color objects must include profiles. The exception is document CMYK which exports as DeviceCMYK (no profile). If you really want document CMYK objects to include a profile you have to set the Standard to None and choose Include All Profiles in the Output tab.

Destination: WideGamutCMYK (don't worry about the actual name or the profile not being US Sheetfed or a standard CMYK profiles.)

I can understand why you think this might be a good idea, but modern CMYK output profiles are created by taking color readings from a printed press sheet, so using a random output class CMYK profile (that isn't an actual profile of the output device) as the source profile won't likely produce consistently good results. Usually for composite inkjet printer workflows the better approach is working with tagged RGB color and letting the conversion be directly from RGB into the printer's color space. So AdobeRGB-to-PrinterCMYK, rather than AdobeRGB-to-YourCMYK-toPrinterCMYK.

C

chicagonatureAuthor

Known Participant

Hi,

I'm giving the banner printer a file with a profile with a wider gamut than they want is because here's what these guys say, "The profile is in the RIP. I can't get it for you. Just use US Sheetfed Coated." But I KNOW that the profile of their machine is wider than what they recommend (US Sheetfed Coated). If I would convert it to their suggested USSC, I'm immediately throwing away the color before it even hits their RIP.

However, if I provide their RIP with a profile with a wider color gamut, my hope is that their RIP is going to convert it to their printer's gamut anyway, allowing me to maximize the color of their printer. I've done this with both wide-format printers and at printers with digital copiers (though they call them digital presses). I'm always able to eek out a little extra color if I just let their RIP do the conversion. (Of course, if their RIP is simply "assigning" their profile to my file, that's bad and would produce wrong colors.)

Standard CMYK is such a narrow format for my photography. My work celebrates the kaleidoscopic colors of the rare and wild habitats of the Chicago region--its prairies, woodlands, and wetlands. There's more nature within an hour's drive of downtown Chicago thn 29 national parks, including Arches, Zion, Bryce Canyon, Acadia, and almost as big as Mt. Rainier National Park. Many of my pictures feature purple flowers, and they would fall flat and turn towards the pink side. Recently, I published a big photo-literary coffee-table book using the finest book printer in the world. They're the same Chinese company that made Apple's $299 book. This book printer uses wide-gamut CMYK inks to reproduce color that rivals prints that I make on my Epson 9800 8-color printer. For my purposes here, I'm printing banners and bookmarks to promote the book, and I want the best color I can get out of the comparatively inferior devices used to print them.

I hope this clears up that part of the confusion.

Thanks,

Mike

John Mensinger

Community Expert

chicagonature wrote
...if I provide their RIP with a profile with a wider color gamut, my hope is that their RIP is going to convert it to their printer's gamut anyway, allowing me to maximize the color of their printer.

Yes, this principle is well known and understood here, that's exactly what Rob Day's post #4 is about. And since you understand it, and this:

If I would convert it to their suggested USSC, I'm immediately throwing away the color before it even hits their RIP.

One would assume you'd be looking to maximize the input gamut. But you're not. By using any CMYK space, you're:

immediately throwing away the color before it even hits their RIP

Maybe you missed it. Reread the last part of Rob's post.

L

Laubender

Community Expert

Ah. Mike, with InDesign CS6 there is an explicit PDF/X-4 output preset. Use that, if the banner printing company requires a PDF/X-4 kind of PDF. Do not use "High Quality Print" as base for output.

Regards,
Uwe

L

Laubender

Community Expert

Hi,

what is the banner printing company saying?

What kind of PDF do they require?

Did they provide the WideGamutCMYK profile?

If yes, do the conversion from RGB images to CMYK images with PhotoShop using the WideGamutCMYK profile.

Replace the images in your InDesign layout.

You have to ask the banner printing company:

Export to PDF/X-4 with WideGamutCMYK as print intent.

OR and also ask the banner printing company:

Export to PDF/X-1a with WideGamutCMYK as print intent.

Check with Acrobat Pro if the color values are maintained in the exported PDF.

FWIW: Adobe Bridge is out of this game. Check for output profiles always with Acrobat Pro.

What is your exact version of Acrobat Pro? Best use version 9 over X or XI.

Or use Acrobat Pro DC. Some serious bugs with X and XI with color preview were fixed with Pro DC.

Regards,
Uwe

R

Randy Hagan

Community Expert

The one setting you didn't mention was the Profile Inclusion Policy: options box.

When you go to the Output settings, it's the options box right below the Destination: options box. By default, InDesign uses the Don't Include Profiles option. You want to change that to the Include Destination Profiles option. That should embed your preferred profile in the resulting PDF file.

Though I do have to say, you're skating on thin ice by embedding a profile that differs from your vendor's specs. If your resulting job delivers poor results, and your vendor catches that, you may end up eating that job and paying for the make-good as well.

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