How to Add Space Before Headings at the Start of a New Page in InDesign

[Bedazzled532]

Hi,

I have couple of headings starting from the new page.

I have created a "Heading" style and given before space of 32 points and after space of 16 points. Heading point size is 20 points and leading is 16 points. Both Heading and text are aligned to custom baseline using object style. I have also used inset values in object style.

Now the issue is when the heading is between the text, it works fine but the moment it starts in a new page, "Before space" does not work. I know that "Before space" will not work here BUT I need a 32 point space before Heading One and Heading Three. How do I achieve that without using a new Parent Page.

I have made an alternative heading method also with Rule Above ON and keeping it in frame with offset but that does not work here.

Any suggestions? I have attached screenshot and idml file.

Thanks

<Title renamed by MOD>

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

I wasn't talking about adjusting the first baseline of the text frame. I was talking about applying baseline shift...

Ah! "Too many baselines, my dear Mozart." I get it now, and that's a slick approach. I seem to recall trying it and finding that baseline shift was limited in its range  — perhaps 60 points? — which made it of limited use for this result. But I see shift goes... way high these days (or I'm thinking of some other setting whose limit causes a similiar gotcha) — so all good. I will put that trick back in the list.

Something else is nagging at me about a fault with this approach, but I can't put a finger on it. I will be experimenting. (A peculiarity for me is that I have to see how it maps to EPUB export, with and without CSS restyling.)

Ah, well there's a very good reason to only use the "fixed" setting

And there's the connection between First Baseline and Baseline Grid I was overlooking. Got this now, too, but I still think this is an avoidable problem for the Rule-Above spacing method, and if nothing else I know that space-down method has no hidden gotchas.

Thanks for the clarification x2!

ETA: And yes, the export of the baseline-shift model to EPUB is a bit wonky, but nothing un-fixable at the CSS level. The only reason I can think of as to why I discarded this method was that baseline shift was previously limited — and I am not sure of that. I know some key setting in this realm has a surprisingly small limit that screws up a good process.

[TᴀW]

Well, some people (David Blatner included!) object very strongly to using baseline shift on a whole paragraph, almost as a matter of principle. Normally I agree, but I think this is a legitimate exception.

Another complication is if the heading is more than 1 line long. In that case, a line-style is needed to push the second line down some more.

And finally, the obvious disadvantage is that to select text, you have to aim the cursor at a blank area on the page. But if pianists can play with two hands without looking at the keys, I'm sure pro typesetters can click in the right place without a visual clue!

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Yeah, there's that: I think baseline shift is intended for small (line-height) tweaks and pushing stuff around by inches seems... wrong, fragile, hacky. But it does work. (Myself, I appreciate it for tweaks, since I can't stand where dashes fall in most fonts and have to tweak typeset phone numbers to look right!)

The real solution here would be for Adobe to add the seemingly-simple, layout-standard, would-be-appreciated "honor space above" option for styles, much like the 'keep in frame' check for Rules. It's hardly an oddball need to want a heading or such pushed down a page, and the lack of any way to do it within the text flow, without tinker-toy workarounds, is baffling. But even Word lacks that feature for running content, so.... sigh.

[rob day]

Ah, well there's a very good reason to only use the "fixed" setting – if you care about text aligning to the baseline grid. If you choose any other setting for the first baseline of a text frame, then if, for some reason, the first line of text in a frame contains a big letter

Hi @TᴀW , I’m not seeing a problem with different point sizes in the Rule Above example I posted, which uses Leading as the First Baseline Offset. I get this where all the lines sit on the baseline grid, which is what I expect given the styles’ Leadings and space offsets are multiples of the 16pt baseline grid:

[TᴀW]

Hi @rob day ,

Right, leading will avoid some problems.

But if you've got a subhead or something that has a slightly more generous leading than the body text (or sometimes, for whatever reason, the final paragraph return in a paragraph has some extra leading), it will throw text off the baseline.

Anyway, I'm glad there's a "fixed" option for the first baseline, so I never need to worry about such things.

[rob day]

But if you've got a subhead or something that has a slightly more generous leading than the body text (or sometimes, for whatever reason, the final paragraph return in a paragraph has some extra leading), it will throw text off the baseline.

But @Bedazzled532 is using Align to baseline grid, so adjusting the Leading to something other than a multiple of of the grid is not going to have an affect no matter what the first line offset is.

[Brad @ Roaring Mouse]

Since you are using a fixed baseine grid, I see no need to define your text frame with a first baseline to Fixed. Change it to Ascent, then all of the other suggestions will work. I personally uses the same technique that @rob day uses.

Here's MY fixed file: