How to Handle Multiple References to the Same Endnote with Hyperlinks in InDesign

[John26029487lpfe]

I know there are similar questions, but the answers don't work for me.

I'm formatting a white paper that has 52 references, each of which are cited multiple times in the text.

When I say "reference," I basically mean "endnote," I guess. Superscript numbers in the text linked to a numbered list at the end of the document. (I'll try to explain exactly what I mean, but this really isn't a question about proper terminology, I'm just trying to solve a specific problem.)

I need to be able to generate a PDF that hyeprlinks the superscript numbers in the text to their corresponding endnotes - and then back again to the text when you click the number in the endnote.

I already had to mine forums to learn that you only get hyperlinked endnotes at all if you export the PDF as "High Quality Print." NO other PDF setting works. Just mentioning it here because it's unbelievable. (Why would you even need a print to have links?) But that's the kind of quirk that Adobe likes to leave in its software for decades.

In re: the problem of needing to have multiple references to the same endnote, I read in one forum that you can simply cut and paste from the first instance of the endnote in the text. The guy goes "you may have to manually change the number since InDesign will automatically make it the next in sequence." So my question was, what about the "link"?

But I tried it. I noticed that usually it would make the endnote number the next in sequence rather than pasting what I'd copied. Sometimes it wouldn't though, and I have zero clue what the difference was. Weirdly, when it would make the number the next in sequence, it wouldn't add a corresponding endnote at the end of the document - so I don't know how that would work; you'd hard return from the last endnote and manually enter it? Would it then link? I also noticed to my dismay that at one point when I had to go back in the text to paste in more references to already-created footnotes, it started automatically moving ones after it down in sequence. I then had to manually fix those.

And then, when I exported the PDF, I saw that many of the endnote references in the text didn't link. The original instances did, and then some of the pasted ones did as well - but not all. My guess is the ones that didn't work were the ones I had to manually correct, but I'm not totally sure.

I feel like this is probably a GREP problem, but I can't figure it out in my current state of knowledge. My next stab was going to involve just dummying the whole thing, not using InDesign endnotes at all, just putting superscripted numbers in the text and hyperlinking them to text anchors in the "endnotes" section.

The only problem left is the return link for the additional occurrences  - but that seems to be a problem no matter how you slice it. Is there any possible way to handle that? It would somehow have to know where you just jumped from and have that contextually loaded as the link back when you click the number. Doesn't seem likely, but maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway just seeing what sort of advice I can get here. If you know of anything that would work for this, please reply. I love it if it's all InDesign wonky; I like learning the intricacies, but I don't always have time to do all the groundwork when I have a specific task to get done - but I can follow a recipe.

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[FRIdNGE]

Let's take a example:

You have a document with 100 pages and the endnotes are on pages 98-99-100.

You are on the page 32 and click on the endnote call to go to its endnote explanation page 99.

Now you are on the page 99! …

In InDesign, you can "go back" to the previous page [menu "Layout"]. I mean return to the page 32.

You have the same "go back" on Acrobat. Just play "Cmd-left arrow" (on Mac) or "Ctrl-left arrow" (on Windows).

(^/)  The Jedi

[John26029487lpfe]

Thanks for your reply - that's better than nothing! But of course this paper will go to people who won't even read it in acrobat; I really need an intuitive, self-contained solution. But I might not get one. In this instance, the whole paper is only about 12-15 pages, so it's not a huge deal, but I'd really like to know how to handle this for the future.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@John26029487lpfe 

If you are creating PDF for web / readers - not for printing - and want to have all "interactive" functionality - you should export INTERACTIVE PDF:

If you still want to have interactive funtionality in PRINTed PDF - you need to check manually:

[John26029487lpfe]

I mean, you would think, right? But it doesn't hyperlink the endnote references. Should but doesn't.

I actually went through and confirmed that the ONLY PDF setting that works to create links in endnotes or footnotes is the "High Quality Print." Makes no sense; must just be a longstanding oversight. 

[m1b]

Hi @John26029487lpfe, it would be great if you could post an demo .indd document showing an example of the endnote styles with multiple sources. For example, would it be something like this:

1. My publication title, 2024. Pages 3, 5, 6.

with hyperlinks for each of "3", "5" and "6"?

- Mark

[FRIdNGE]

Mark,

I thought about such an approach but that means the reader notes for memory the number of the original page before jumping to the endnote page ! ... Personally not the kind of relevant behavior I would have simplistically.

(^/)

[m1b]

Exactly @FRIdNGE. That's why I wondered what OP had in mind.

[John26029487lpfe]

Thank you for your reply - I had to send the paper off for engineer proofing and I'm just now looping back to this project. That's an interesting idea. It does have the limitation mentioned by FRIdNGE, but it's at least something.

I just have the reference name in the endnote, which is typically quite long and often lists a page range from the referenced document - so I'd have to make sure the page links back had a distinct style.

I'll attach the paper stripped of graphics fwiw.

Btw as I thought about this, I guess the SORT of thing that might work is if somehow the PDF "loaded" that "go back" (cntrl-left arrow) into the footnote number in the footnote section, so that when you clicked it, it would simply take you back to where you jumped from. But I'm sure that isn't set up lol. I have to wonder how this kind of thing IS handled though. It's so hard to even think of how to describe it to search for answers.

[John26029487lpfe]

Actually, following on what I said above - is there any way to insert a "go back to previous page" link? Then I could probably dummy the whole endnotes section with hyperlinks and text anchors to get TO the endnotes, and then basically all the numbers in the endnote section would just have that "go back" link and work contextually.

[James Gifford—NitroPress · Accepted solution]

First, a confirmation that links don't work reliably in all export modes, although it seems more accurate to say that they don't work in "Smallest File" mode than anything else. They work (for me) in High Quality Print and Press Quality, for, me if the Hyperlnks box is checked, and in the interactive PDF export as well. So it's that one mode, which is clearly omitting something in the name of file size — but I don't recall links not working in prior versions, either. Acrobat has been put through the AI wringer so thoroughly it's not surprising to find that obvious, basic features are no longer what they once were.

As for the many-to-one link, that kind of question/request is made regularly... and I have to ask how you envision the app/doc logic to work for it? As pointed out, a link to the endnote is one thing — you can do all kinds of many-to-one links in various ways — but the logic to sort out which of those references to return to simply doesn't exist in PDF, EPUB, web or any other general document platform I'm aware of.

I think this is another example of functionality a designer/author has encountered in a fully developed app or info platform and expects to be able to replicate with a far less "intelligent" and interacting doc platform — a variation of those who want all kinds of advanced multimedia and interactivity in export docs, just like they found in some dedicated information platform elsewhere.

There is no doc platform or model I know of that incorporates that kind of intelligence, logic, link tracking and nonlinear accessibility. Only a fully programmed app/platform solution, where for example there is structure for the reader to store the source of an inquiry link so it can be returned to, can do these things.

[John26029487lpfe]

OK. That doesn't surprise me. I could just envision the kind of thing I'd need, but I just didn't know if that functionality existed or not - but since I couldn't imagine how it would work, I suspected it didn't.

I suppose for purposes of these white papers I'll just use the suggestion to list out the page numbers where the reference appears at the end of the reference/endnote, and have those link back to the individual pages. Which will be really tedious to do, but it seems to be the only way to get anything like this.

Thanks for the info. 

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Consider also that while a nifty idea, it's just an unreasonable expectation all around. Anyone reading a white paper can be expected to manage the process themselves, not have the document play out like a YouTube video.

[John26029487lpfe]

lol...OK thanks. Again, I didn't really expect this to be a thing, just tried to find out if somehow it was, or what people do to get this kind of result. Now I know it has to be done in a specialized platform. Makes sense

[John26029487lpfe]

And I'll give you correct answer. You obviously know a lot about this and I do appreciate you taking the time to clue me in.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

I in no way claim to be a final answer or an expert on this point — I'm sure somewhere, somehow, probably with JavaScript or the like, it could be done. But it would have to be hand-built, hand-coded for each specific document, and not all PDF readers will correctly manage that code or necessarily manage it at all.

I suppose the best-fits-all solution would be popups for the notes, as EPUB and Kindle can do with some quirks and limitations. But no PDF reader I know of handles notes that way.

All just added evidence that we truly, deeply, madly, desperately need a modern e-doc format, preferably one with a strong controlling/compliance system. Both PDF and EPUB are into the embarrassingly-bad state, and there is no third option.