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Brian27472827l5wr
Known Participant
March 16, 2023
Question

How to make text-width paragraph rule under Exhibit Number generated as numbered list

  • March 16, 2023
  • 10 replies
  • 8879 views

I need to achieve the following appearance, with a text-width green line under the exhibit number, but I cannot find any way to achieve it while allowing the exhibit numbers to automatically update if an earlier exhibit is added or removed. Is there any way? InDesign file attached.

The first thing I tried was to generate the exhibit numbers as a numbered list. However, this made the green paragraph rule disappear for reasons I don't totally understand. I did learn that underlines are not compatible with numbered lists. However, I set up the green line as a paragraph rule generated as a "text-width" Rule Above (even though it is below the top line of the paragraph). The width of the green rule needs to match the width of the text in the top line of the paragraph and there needs to be only one green rule per paragraph. The exhibit title is separated from the exhibit number using a forced line break (rather than a paragraph break) to allow the two line to concatenate in the list of exhibits (table of contents). I thought generating the green line as a paragraph rule instead of underline was supposed to make it compatible with numbered lists, but apparently that is not quite right.

 

The next idea was to keep the exhibit numbers as regular text, but automatically populate the chapter number and section letter ("11D" in the example above) using a section marker and generate the incrementing number after the hyphen using some kind of cross reference. However, I have never worked with section markers and couldn't figure out how to create an incrementing cross reference that automatically adjusts if a paragraph of that style is added or deleted earlier in the story.

 

I would appreciate any tips or help. I have proposed just letting the green paragraph rule span the full column width, but that would trigger a series of design committee meetings and approvals and several chapters of the manual have already been published using the original design pictured above.

This topic has been closed for replies.

10 replies

B
Brian27472827l5wrAuthor
Known Participant
March 24, 2023

While we never found a perfect solution, we ended up accepting the option to use a fixed width for the green line by setting it up as a "column" width paragraph rule with a Right Indent set to make the green line the width of the longest Exhibit Number. This added an intermediate step of first resizing all of the Exhibit Number text frames to be the same width. Some of them now extend off of the artboard, unfortunately, but I think that is acceptable. Nobody directly suggested this approach, so I'm not sure if I can mark anyone's reply as a correct answer.

FRIdNGE
FRIdNGE
March 24, 2023

“While we never found a perfect solution ...”

 

???

 

(^/)

B
Brian27472827l5wrAuthor
Known Participant
March 24, 2023

You did not provide documentation of how your script works or the steps necessary to reproduce it. I am not looking to procure a proprietary service.

Peter Spier
Community Expert
Peter SpierCommunity Expert
Community Expert
March 18, 2023

I tghink Dirk was on the right track with converting the numbers to text, then undoing (though that might be a problem for the TOC), if you can actually set a numbered list that works.

J
James_M_S
Known Participant
March 17, 2023

This is just a variation on Peter Spier's suggestion.

Automatic paragraph numbers are in nonprinting frames anchored to the beginning of each exhibit paragraph. The exhibit number on the first line of each exhibit paragraph is a cross-reference back to the paragraph number in the corresponding anchored frame. The rest works as you'd expect. Once every exhibit paragraph with it's anchored frame is set up, they should all update when a new one is added.

 

 

Otherwise, maybe the Jedi's script would work the best or maybe a solution like making the green underline an anchored object that is adjusted manually. ... Of course, Adobe should fix InDesign so paragraph numbers can be fully styled as expected.

J
James_M_S
Known Participant
March 18, 2023

This may not work after all. That is, it works when it's set up, but when new exhibit numbers are added, InDesign seems to lose track of the cross-references sources.

J
James_M_S
Known Participant
March 17, 2023

Putting the autonumbered exhibit numbers in an inline frame seems like it might work since the table of contents picks up the inline frames:

J
James_M_S
Known Participant
March 17, 2023

A paragraph rule in the exhibit title can be applied to the length of the inline frame and prevents the rule from showing up in the table of contents:

 

The downside is that apparently  the contents of the inline frame can't be styled differently when it appears in the table of contents

FRIdNGE
FRIdNGE
March 17, 2023

 

(^/)

B
Brian27472827l5wrAuthor
Known Participant
March 17, 2023

If the content above the green line ultimately cannot be generated as a numbered list, then I think the second approach may be the one I am more interested in help with. I need to figure out how to display the applicable "section letter" from the headings in the surrounding body text headings. Then, after a hyphen, I need an incrementing number that restarts any time it is in a new section. Is there any way to generate an incrementing letter like this other than by using a numbered list (same question as here: https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/auto-incremental-numbering-in-flowing-text-variable/td-p/9031796)? If the answer is no, and a numbered list is the only way as @jmlevy says, then I'm thinking I need a dummy numbered list on a non-printing layer and then some way of duplicating that number into regular text. I thought a running header using the character style of the numbered list ought to work, but it shows up blank. Why does InDesign even give the option of assigning character styles to numbered lists if most of the potential uses of character styles are not compatible?

FRIdNGE
FRIdNGE
March 17, 2023
quote

… the content above the green line ultimately cannot be generated as a numbered list …


By @Brian27472827l5wr

 

This comment is just false as I shown!

 

(^/)

FRIdNGE
FRIdNGE
March 17, 2023

https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/unable-to-underline-numbering-in-list/m-p/13652109#M519579

 

(^/)  The Jedi

FRIdNGE
FRIdNGE
March 17, 2023

I took a look at the Script I've written years ago for a client [small price] and saw if it could work here…

 

With some code rewritting and basing on the original ID file sent by Brian [without change: auto-num + para rule on column], just 1 click!

 

 

(^/)  The Jedi

D
Dirk Becker
Legend
March 16, 2023

If the problem is only with active numbering: The Paragraph Styles panel has a fly-out menu "Convert ”Exhibit PStyle” Numbering to Text". As a workaround, you could invoke that before exporting the PDF, then immediately undo.

 

Also try different composers.

    Peter Spier
    Community Expert
    Peter SpierCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    March 16, 2023

    I think I would take a different approach. The paragraph rule would work if this was a separate paragraph, and the only thing keeping you from that is you want to concatenate with the next paragraph in the TOC. I would use two paragraphs, the create a new style to use for the TOC entry and add a concatenated string using that style as an anchored object at that position in the text flow. You can make the type invisible for the concatenated string in the body, but visible in the TOC.

    B
    Brian27472827l5wrAuthor
    Known Participant
    March 16, 2023

    Just tested this and splitting the two lines with a paragraph break does not affect the behavior of the paragraph rule: 

    It could, however, allow James Gifford's paragraph border workaround to work, so maybe it will come to this.

    Peter Spier
    Community Expert
    Peter SpierCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    March 16, 2023

    If the rule is applied (most likely as rule below) to a single paragraph that is just the exhibit number, then you have the exhibit title as a second paragraph, that should work. Here's how:

     

    Replace the forced line break with a paragraph return.

    Copy the two paragraphs and paste into a new text frame. Replace the paragraph break in that frame with a space (or forced line break if in fact you want the TOC entry on two lines). Assign a new pargraph style to the text in the new frame. Define that style so the text is invisible if you like, or set the frame to non-printing (which is probably better since you can still see it while editing), then cut the frame and paste into the text flow at the end of the second paragraph so it becomes an anchored object.

    Redefine your TOC Style to include the new pararagraph style for the invisible text instead of the old paragraph style you used for the text with the forced line break.

    J
    James_M_S
    Known Participant
    March 16, 2023

    Apparently underlining doesn't work with automatic numbering.

     

    But maybe you can play around with paragraph shading to make the green underline and with a paragraph border in the paper color to blank out the shading on subsequent lines.

     

    You may be able to get it to work if the exhibit numbers and titles are fairly consistent in length.

     

    The attached images show what I just did. Others on here may be able to fine-tune it or offer a better solution.

    J
    James_M_S
    Known Participant
    March 16, 2023

    I should have included the paragraph numbering setting.

    James Gifford—NitroPress
    James Gifford—NitroPress
    Legend
    March 16, 2023

    That's really odd, but I am not surprised that the auto-numbering again falls into a "not regular text" category and thus doesn't work as expected with text enhancements. It sounds like you've worked through all the options — kudos! — and still not found a solution. Here's a dumb suggestion to try: see if Paragraph Border works better than Paragraph Rule; the two features are similar but have quite a few implementation differences and thus one will sometimes do something the other won't.

     

    If that or another suggestion doesn't get you to a fix, I will experiment later. (Oddly enough, I am tied up with just the kind of endless procedural meetings you are trying to avoid... 🙂 )

     

      B
      Brian27472827l5wrAuthor
      Known Participant
      March 16, 2023

      Good thought, but it looks like the fact we have each exhibit title in the same paragraph as the corresponding exhibit number (which is necessary to get the List of Exhibits table of contents to format correctly) prevents this from working since the "border" width will be based on the widest line of the paragraph. Otherwise, I can confirm that a text-width paragraph border includes the list number within its bounds while a text-width paragraph rule does not. "Fascinating!"

      J
      James_M_S
      Known Participant
      March 16, 2023

      What I did to avoid that problem was to do it "backwards" from the way it's usually done. Narrow paragraph shading set to 100% opacity forms the green underline and a wide paragraph border set to the paper color blanks it out on the second line. If your exhibit titles are more than one line, then even this may get pretty tricky.

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