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Identical copies of shapes end up different sizes when transformed together

Participant ,
Sep 23, 2017 Sep 23, 2017

So for a project I'm working on, I have a shape, and then I copy the shape and lay it on another layer directly over the top of the first.  If the top shape is white, and the bottom blue, you wouldn't be able to see the hidden blue shape beneath. Then I put a 4pt stroke on the the bottom shape. If I use the selection tool, select both shapes together, and then pull on a corner to enlarge the two together, the two shapes end up being different sizes, every time.The bottom shape is always slightly bigger then the top. Now, if the top shape is white, and the bottom blue, after the transformation with the select tool, you will be able to see the blue shape peeking out under the white. What's going on here? I need to make multiple copies of the two shapes laying on top of each other, and size them according to need. I also need the stroke weight to remain consistent. But InDesign insists on altering the size of each shape differently when I transform them, which really makes no sense at all. This happens even if I use the shift tool. Can anyone help? Thanks much in advance for any ideas or suggestions.

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Community Expert , Sep 24, 2017 Sep 24, 2017

I just tried scaling in InDesign CS6 and had the same issue so this must be a long standing bug. As with InDesign CC, using the Control panel to scale works fine in CS6.

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Community Expert ,
Sep 23, 2017 Sep 23, 2017

Couple of things to check. In the Stroke panel, choose the alignment for the stroke. Sounds like you may want "inside".

Also, select the object with the stroke and in the Transform panel, uncheck "Adjust Stroke Weight when Scaling" before you resize the object if you don't want the stroke weight to change.

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Participant ,
Sep 23, 2017 Sep 23, 2017

Hi Barbara, thanks for the response. For the first point, I definitely do not want the stroke inside. I want two identical shapes, one directly atop the other, with the bottom one having a stroke so the shape is outlined. If the bottom shape has an inside stroke, it wouldn't be seen at all. To the second point, the stroke is not adjusting with the scale. I start with a 4pt stroke, and after scaling, it's still a 4pt stroke. Which is exactly what I want. BUT the physical size of the two shapes are different!

Here you see the top layer - the red circle on layer 2 is selected. Info shows the size of the shape as 18p0 for height and width. The red circle layer has no stroke. You can't see the blue circle beneath the red, but you can see the stroke on the blue circle and it seems to outline the red..

ID_prob_01.jpg

In this one the bottom layer - the blue circle with the stroke is selected and the red circle is hidden. The size of the shape is exactly the same.

ID_prob_02.jpg

In this image all the layers are selected together.

ID_prob_03.jpg

Then I take the selection tool, hold shift, and scale the two images up. Notice immediately that the bottom blue circle is no longer hidden beneath the red one. Note the size of the top layer, which is 40p7.529.

ID_prob_04.jpg

Now we hide the top layer and look at the info panel for the bottom blue layer. Its size is different from the top red layer. It is 41p8.1!

ID_prob_05.jpg

My strokes are exactly the way I want them, and they're working as advertised. However, I can't for the life of me understand why InDesign is making two identical shapes two different sizes when they're scaled together. THAT'S my problem! Thanks again for the help!

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Community Expert ,
Sep 24, 2017 Sep 24, 2017

By default InDesign recognizes the stroke of an object when calculating its size and reporting it in the Transform Panel. If you want to have the sizes shown without including stroke weight then uncheck "Dimensions Include Stroke Weight" in the Transform Panel pull-down. See screen shot:

Screen Shot 2017-09-24 at 6.55.00 AM.png

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Participant ,
Sep 24, 2017 Sep 24, 2017

Hi Bill, thanks much for the response! I really appreciate you guys taking the time to help me out.

Since I didn't want the weight of the stroke to change or figure in on this, that transform panel was the first place I went. Here's how my transform options were set up for this...

ID_prob_06.jpg

Do you happen to know if there's another place in InDesign where this option may be active? Like maybe a preferences check box I don't know about or something like that? It has to be something like this because the objects only differ after scaling IF the bottom layer has a stroke.

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Community Expert ,
Sep 24, 2017 Sep 24, 2017

In the General section of your InDesign preferences select "Adjust Scaling Percentage" rather than "Apply to Content" under Object Editing. See screen shot:

Screen Shot 2017-09-24 at 11.22.23 AM.png

When you do this the Transform Panel will report only the dimensions of the shapes as if they were drawn with no strokes at all. The reality though is that if one of the objects does have a stroke applied that goes outside the original boundary then if you physically compare the two the one with a stroke will in actuality be larger.

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Participant ,
Sep 24, 2017 Sep 24, 2017

Hi Bill, thanks! I gave that a shot, and sadly, it did not solve the problem. Thanks again!

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Community Expert ,
Sep 24, 2017 Sep 24, 2017

Mike,

Thanks for the additional detail about your procedure. That is very helpful. I am experiencing the same problem so I think it is a bug.

When resizing both circles using the Control panel, the problem does NOT occur.

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Community Expert ,
Sep 24, 2017 Sep 24, 2017

I just tried scaling in InDesign CS6 and had the same issue so this must be a long standing bug. As with InDesign CC, using the Control panel to scale works fine in CS6.

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Participant ,
Sep 24, 2017 Sep 24, 2017

Hi Barbara, haha I was thinking BUG, but I wanted to hold out hope I was just doing something stupid. I appreciate your help and effort. It's much appreciated.

Since I actually need to adjust the shapes visually, it looks like I'm going to have to switch to Illustrator to do this project (since it doesn't have this problem). Of course, I have a feeling I'm going to run into some other unseen problem, so don't be surprised it you see me in the Illustrator forum!

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Community Expert ,
Nov 22, 2018 Nov 22, 2018
LATEST

Barbara Ash wrote:

I just tried scaling in InDesign CS6 and had the same issue so this must be a long standing bug. As with InDesign CC, using the Control panel to scale works fine in CS6.

Hi Barbara,

with CC 2019 version 14.0.1.209 we finally have more options to scale it right!

Obviously there were some fixes made by the developers. Thanks!

Now the Free Form Transform tool and the Scale tool is working as expected.

Plus the Scale input fields of the Control panel. Not only the Width and Height input fields there.

FWIW: The Selection tool should be still avoided for scaling.

Regards,
Uwe

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