Known Participant

Question

IDML ISSUE - Layout completly changenged

Forum|Forum|5 years ago
June 13, 2020
13 replies
5441 views

Hi all, again...

I have a big issue when saving my INDD file to IDML, when I want to send it to our translator.

Some Layouts totaly changes!! Texts blocs aren't alligned anymore, our out of layout, or the pages becomes asymetrics... that's make we have to start back all our job when we put some layout into translation.

How can it happend... for a 460 pages book, it's not possible to loose so many time with this kind of problem... please see pictures.

This topic has been closed for replies.

L

Laubender

Community Expert

It did not happen to me, yet. But that does not mean that much…

Frederic,

you mentioned a 460 pages book. Is this book organized with an InDesign book file?

An *.indb file that manages several InDesign documents?

If so, do you synch parent pages accross the book? Perhaps parent pages that are applied to other parent pages?

Maybe that's the core of the issue? A bug with synching?

Then I would try to flatten the structure of parent pages and decrease complexity.

It would of course increase the number of parent pages, but maybe you could avoid the bug when no parent page is based on another one?

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

frederic.pitonAuthor

Known Participant

Yes Uwe, it was made with a book of +/- 50 files for more that 500 pages (it's a catalog)

The template is not so complexe : A Main template reused and applied on 12 under-template.

All was synced all the time with template syncing too...

But in fact, I'm a graphist, not a developper of Adobe, and nore a debugger... 😉

So, I repeat it : the way to correct my issue was to delete all elements on the template layout in background and juste send my file with texte, image, table, etc to translator.

After that I had to resync White pages with th good template and give back the background layout.

Willi Adelberger

Community Expert

I think it is a bug. I have reported several times against it. Saving as IDML and open it, all frames are sometimes displaced. As I work with object styles I remove all overrides and this will repair my problem. I did not figure out why it is happening, but it is happening.

frederic.pitonAuthor

Known Participant

I think also it's a bug, but it's totally a dream being heard by Adobe... that's what I fight for in 2020... but today, 2 years after, I see that Adobe doesn't react on anything. I don't know if the bud is allready there.

L

Laubender

Community Expert

Derek said: " Save As doesn't, it just adds an extra layer of data."

Don't think so, a simple "Save" will do this. It will add layers of layers of information to an InDesign document. You can notice that the file will grow in size with every Save. "Save As" usually consolidates the data.

Back to Frederic's issue.

If parent pages are the point where things go wrong I ask myself if it wouldn't hurt to rebuild the document not using IDML before starting the IDML process that has to be done for translation.

Perhaps by moving pages to a new document. The alternative would be Copy and Paste In Place contents to a brand new document. And of course doing new parent pages and apply them again. A lot of work, I know…

Could be that the original document has a long history that started a couple of years ago with quiet a different version of InDesign on a different operating system and was saved a lot when it initially was prepared or even years later?

Frederic, you could look into the history of the document. Hold the ~~Alt~~ Cmd key ( with a French keyboard I'm not sure ) and go to menu "About InDesign". The screen that is showing up allows you to save the history of the document to a text file in the same folder with the document. Look into the history, maybe you see something interesting.

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

//EDITED: Do not hold the Alt key. It's the Cmd key (MacOS) or Ctrl key (Windows).

frederic.pitonAuthor

Known Participant

Hallo Ude,

It was files totaly new, developped on 2 month max.

The problem comes from the template, cause, when I delete all elements on it and export in IDML, all files are OK.

I don't find the way to save the file history.

Here, it doesn't really mater, we starts back a new catalog with new template. (this tread is open since june 2020)
I don't take the time to export it in IDML and do the test if the problem is allready there with a new file or not.

Regards,

Frederic

L

Laubender

Community Expert

"I don't find the way to save the file history."

From my German InDesign after holding the Cmd* key and invoking "About InDesign":

Use that button to write the history protocol data text file:

* It was the cmd key, not the Alt key. I was wrong on that, sorry.

Cmd key on MacOS, Ctrl key on Windows with an English keyboard. Strg key with a German keyboard on Windows.

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

L

Laubender

Community Expert

Hi Frederic,

don't know if this will change something for you, but I would do a Save As to the same document name before the export to IDML. That could perhaps clear the internal structure of the document a bit before the export filter for IDML takes over.

Just a thought…

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

frederic.pitonAuthor

Known Participant

Hallo Uwe,

Tht doesn't work , save, save as, save a copy...

The only thing I've found to do before exporting is erasing all the template and just keep all the text that have to be translated.

Regards,

Frederic

Derek Cross

Community Expert

To clarify, Saving as an IDML cleans up the document and rebuilds it, Save As doesn't, it just adds an extra layer of data. So if you want to clean up your file and start with a blank slate and avoid the build up of crud that can cause document corruption, Export your file as an IDML document.

To avoid corruption, InDesign users should undertake this on documents they've been working on for some time.

J

Johanes

Participant

Hello,

I think you should try to delete Character Styles that came with imported text. Then export to IDML.

All the best!

frederic.pitonAuthor

Known Participant

Hello Johanes and thank you.

There's no character style imported. The Layout is completely clean and new, and I've created all the styles.

Thank you and best regards,

Frederic

Derek Cross

Community Expert

Well you can either spend your time complaining or, do as I suggested, and start a new thread with the details I asked for so that the next time you (or others) need to undertake this process we can (hopefully) come up with a solution.
Over to you!

frederic.pitonAuthor

Known Participant

Lol, sorry Derek, 'HOPE' is good for churches...

I'm waited for a solution on june 12 but there's no adobe employee manifestation or solution... I don't know why now there's something new or an interest...

My layout is simple, The layout changes between INDD and IDML, but not only the layout : the pages position in double page. and that's the major problem, and a programming problem !! 'cause its impossible to place 2 pages like this in indesign.

@Sheena_Kaul, adobe employee ''HOPE too'' there's a solution, I just tell her that were not... ;o)

T

Tony5C2A

Participant

Salut Frederic!

I've got the exact same issue, that's a real pain and making the whole translation process very unpractical.

With Trados, there are no other options, we have to IDML files as you said, there is no way around that...

I was hoping to find a solution in here, apparently there's no solution to that issue. I just cannot understand why all text alignment, etc are completely mayhem in the IDML files..

Feel free to update us if you found a solution to this?

Cheers

Derek Cross

Community Expert

Which version of InDesign and OS?

Does your translator use the same version of InDesign as you and are you sure s/he has identical fonts?

frederic.pitonAuthor

Known Participant

The last version, and at least 3 versions since I've posted this issue.

The translator have nothing to make with that issue : when I reopen my 'just saved'' idml, I have the problem.

Derek Cross

Community Expert

Can you repost with a new thread, clearly stating the exact version of InDesign and OS and detail the issue you're having.

Sheena Kaul

Legend

Hi there,

I am hoping that your issue has been resolved till now. If not, please feel free to update this thread else let us know if any of the suggestions shared above helped you or not.

Regards,

Sheena

frederic.pitonAuthor

Known Participant

Hi Sheena,

Not solved, no. I had to delete all Master_layouts out of my documents > save them in IDML to have something +/- correct, and thant, after translation reintegrate all of my documents with master_Layout...

Many loss of time !

Joel Cherney

Community Expert

I've seen these kinds of of issues many times, as 100% of my InDesign work is preparind INDD for translation, and desktop-publishing of IDML after translation. Certain formatting techniques are more likely to create problems, not because of the actual technique used, but because the IDML filter written for the TM tool in question is more likely to fail on it. For instance, one TM tool (I recall that it was Wordfast) had an IDML filter would ignore all ICML assignments. Every TM tool has flaws, and knowing what those flaws are will help you prepare your INDDs in such a way as to prevent these glitches.

However, if you're experiencing these formatting problems when you're merely exporting IDML and immediately re-opening it on your own workstation, you're not experiencing a TM-tool IDML-filter issue. It's an issue with InDesign's own filters, either at IDML creation or at IDML import. Looking at the way stuff is shifting in the images you included with your original post, I would start by just isolating a single spread in a separate file, testing it by exporting IDML and then seeing the objects shift in the resulting file, then heading over to indesign.uservoice.com and posting an explanation of the problem, accompanied by the INDD. By doing so, you can also identify what elements in your layouts are causing the problems upon re-importing the IDML:

open the single-spread INDD.
delete any one design element.
save the INDD.
export IDML.
re-open IDML... is the resulting file broken?
If yes, go back to 1 and try again.
If no: congratulatons! You found the element that the IDML-filter is choking on, try rebulding it using a different formatting technique.

frederic.pitonAuthor

Known Participant

Hello Joel,

Thank you for your complete answer.

As I said in another reply, I try of course to isolate the problem, trying to decrease the number of 'linked' master pages, and when I arrive at 1 master page and having an idea of the object that causes problem... => I try the process on another master page and, there, the problem stays, for another the problem desapear,... impossible to isolate it. @ last, I delete all my master pages, and give All the pages of my documents the [WITHOUT MP] Style. (I don't know all terms in english)

I try Indesign uservoice for other problems, proposal... never had any reaction... it's impossible to have contact with a developper or someone who hear your problem directly... In the comunity, You hope that someone will read your subject... On uservoice too... You hope having enought votes to be read by someone of Adobe...

If there's some tool to see and/or debug the problems... If there's a direct link with developpers that take your file and analyse it... if, if... I hate loosing my time, even much more when I'm in full production...

It's not acceptable, professionnal app doing homebrew things, having to loose time searching why this, or this doesn't work... And finaly asking poeple who are not from Adobe, to spend time to find something for others.

I would be curious to see the reaction of my client if I said : ''Ok, your job doesn't work as expected, please ask friends or your comunity or your printer if they can help you, I sell you the project, that's all'' 🙂

And yes, it's an issue with Indesign filters, each time I send something to a translator (they uses Trados). The file comes back identicaly.

This problem with Master pages is not new for me, I've allready see it with a completely diffrent project of the same client. and project that uses Multiple Masterpages with a based masterpage too...

In futher project, I had to creat my masterpages in diffrent ways, with less creativity an possibilities to earn time changing the beses of the layout.

In fact, if Adobe creates a way, for the books, to use Master stylesheets, In stead of Masterpages, the file would be lighter, and the project too... posted on uservoice... never had any reaction... ;o)

Best regards,

Frederic

Derek Cross

Community Expert

The forthcoming Indesign Share for Review feature is described on the InDesign Secrets website:

https://indesignsecrets.com/creativepro-week-attendees-get-a-sneak-peek-at-indesigns-new-share-for-review-feature.php

frederic.pitonAuthor

Known Participant

Thank you for your link Derek, I would like to ask it to you.

So, I think it's a good idea to develop this kind of possibility, and if they thiks about linking this features with main Translate assisted app, it would be great.

Best regards,

Frederic

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