InDesign 18 numeric scaling does not scale stroke nor effect

[sevenK]

If I scale an object, say a square 40x40 mm with a stroke size of 4 point, to say double the size in any of the panels, transform or object panel, the stroke size stays the same. This also applies to effects e.g. drop shadows. The transformation is set to scale everything, which it does if I use the percentage scaling, but not if I scale numerically. I’m pretty sure all the object properties used to be scaled as well when adjusting the size of the object. This is really annoying because I often scale objects within artworks by adjusting their size, so if the object contains a stroke or any other effect, they don’t get scaled properly.

I did delete the prefs already, but that didn‘t help. It‘s also weird that I can’t lock proportions anymore in the transformation panel, haven’t noticed this before though, but I believe the lock option used to be there as well. 

[Peter Spier]

With either of the selection tools active you will find the option to scale strokes in the menu on the right end of the Control Panel. Set it with no object selected and it will become the default for all objects in the file. Do it with no files open and it will be the default for all new files.

[sevenK]

It is set to scale but doesn't scale the effects or strokes.

[Peter Spier]

Sounds like you need to reset the prefs. If the keyboard method disn't work, try manually deleting the files. See Reset InDesign Preferences and Other Troubleshooting 

[sevenK]

Did that already manually, but didn‘t help. Just out of curiosity, does this still work with your inDesign? Double the size of an object with a stroke numerically and the stroke size doubles as well?

[Eugene Tyson]

No - it only works with scaling - not with resizing.

Two different funcitons.

If you need to increase the object to a certain size - in the Scale Percentage - you can insert the precise width you need.

And the object scales to the precise width

This will scale your stroke also

[sevenK]

Used to be different I believe. Just like in Illustrator where the effects are scaled as well, if you scale by numerically resizing. But thnx anyway, so I guess I need to calculate the scaling percentage to get the correct size if I have to, oh well. 

[Eugene Tyson]

I don't remember it ever working like that in InDesign - if it did - that is a mistake. You want to be able to resize an object without the stroke width going out of whack.

I work with strict brand guidelines and when if there's instructions to have 1pt stroke on all images I wouldn't want to reset that stroke width everytime I resize an image with Width and Height.

Scaling is the propper place for this to happen, as you're scaling everything up or down. 

Resizing - I don't believe it should happen.

You have the option either way.

Input your width or height into the scale field as in mm / in or whatever your preferred unit of measurement is. 

It will resize the image and scale your stroke and effects.

You can do it - just not the way you used to think it worked 🙂 

[sevenK]

No, it’s not a „mistake“ at all. Say you have an object with an outline that in the one layout has to be 14 mm high, in the other it needs to be 12 mm. Instead of scaling by 85,71 % it is a lot easier to set the appropriate size to 12 mm with the proper stroke size. If you don’t want the stroke to be scaled you can uncheck the effect scaling in the transformation panel, just like you would do if you scale it by percentage. Like I said, works the same way in Illustrator. 

[Eugene Tyson]

I'm not entirely sure you're grasping the concept and the way it works in InDesign.

Forget everything you know about Illustrator.

Either

Insert the transformation in the Width x Height

Or

Insert the numerical values of the actual width and height in the SCALE section - instead of 85.71% -  you can insert 12mm

If you change the Width and Height values - the stroke/effects won't change

If you choose the Scale dialog - it will change the stroke - unless you have the Scale Stroke/Effects unticked in the options.

If you think it can work better you can make a feature request here

https://indesign.uservoice.com/

[sevenK]

I do believe that I am grasping the concept of InDesign very well. What I’m not „grasping“ is the difference in the approach though. Shouldn’t matter which way you scale IMO. Half or double the size should scale the effects as well, no matter how you perform the scaling.

[Eugene Tyson]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding

Below are examples of starting and ending points

Resizing vs Rescaling

Resizing will never change stroke widths or effects.

Scaling will - and you can turn off that behaviour.

Stroke changes to 2pt when scaled 200%

Stroke won't change

Insert the dimensions in the Scale Box

And it will scale strokes/effects (if the option is on)

[Peter Spier]

>> so I guess I need to calculate the scaling percentage to get the correct size if I have to, oh well. 

Actually, you can enter didmensions, including the units, into the scaling fields. Numbers without any units are interprestred as the default unit, which is percent, but if you specify the units the object will be scaled to that absolute size. You can also enter any dimension, including the units that differ from the ruler units, including % into the height and width filelds and indesign will do the calulation to the current ruler units and resize accordingly.

And Eugene is correct in how this has worked historically.

On a side note, if you search the forums for discussions of scaling effects when resizing an object you will find my vehement objections to this practice at least with shadows. Out here in the real world shadows and things like glows are not determined by the surface area of an object (what we depict on the page surface by the size of an object) but by how high the object is off the surface, in the case of shadows, or how bright, in the case of glows. The only effect that I think might be proportioanl to size would be a bevel, and that would hardly be the default condition in my opinion.

[Eugene Tyson]

>> so I guess I need to calculate the scaling percentage to get the correct size if I have to, oh well. 

Actually, you can enter didmensions, including the units, into the scaling fields. Numbers without any units are interprestred as the default unit, which is percent, but if you specify the units the object will be scaled to that absolute size. 

By @Peter Spier

I've said this a few times already and included screenshots.

Thanks for the extras information too 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

And InDesign also accepts +/-/* and / if you need to move or resize the item by a specific value - "+20" or "-15" or "*2.5" instead of 250%, etc. 

[sevenK]

Okay … that did the „trick“ … still doesn’t make much sense why you can’t just enter the actual size you want and have the object scaled with all the effects applied. You can always uncheck the option if you wish. And this makes absolute sense to me for the reason I had asked in the first place. Take for instance the screenshot I uploaded. This part of the artwork needs to be in a certain hight for different purposes. It is much easier to transform the object including the stroke weight if you are able to just enter the actual size in the transformation or properties panel. Of course you can put in the actual size in the scaling field … but .. then you need to put in the units as well. Crazy.

 Another thing which is total nonsense for me is why you are not able to lock proportions in the transformation panel. But that’s a different story.

[Peter Spier]

>> still doesn’t make much sense why you can’t just enter the actual size you want and have the object scaled with all the effects applied. 

As you say further in your post, you can. You just need to do it in the scale fields, with the units included, rather than the dimension fields.

>> Another thing which is total nonsense for me is why you are not able to lock proportions in the transformation panel. But that’s a different story.

I'm not sure what you mean here. First, I think opening the Transform panel is a waste of time since all those controls, including proportion lock, are right there in the Control Panel. Second, the fields here work the same way. Enter the absolute value in one of the scale fields (which can be locked for proportion).

[sevenK]

It doesn’t really matter what you believe is a waste of time or not, it has something to do with consistency within an application and the different panels available. But also consistency within the whole product line IMO. 

[Peter Spier]

You're right, my opinion doesn't matter. But in the twenty years I've made a living using InDesign I've never found a reason to open the Transform panel until today to see what you were talking about.

I do agree that it seems inconsistent for the lock not to be available in the Transform Panel since it's there in the Control Panel. You should file a feature request if yiouy feel strongly about it.

[Eugene Tyson]

As I said. Post in the user voice forum

Nothing will change otherwise