InDesign Backwards Compatibility in CS5 an MAJOR issue

[Cynthia_Ryan_Graphic]

I am a print designer who works in InDesign. I bought CS3 Design Premium in late summer of 2008. Shortly thereafter CS4 came out, but after just having forked out a big chunk of change, I decided against upgrading to CS4 right away. Recently I considered upgrading but then heard CS5 was coming out so I decided to postpone the upgrade and wait for the new software. I've just checked out the trial version of CS5 InDesign and after speaking with Adobe Support have come to the conclusion that I can't upgrade to CS5. Why? BACKWARDS compatibility to CS3. The previously offered export features that supplied a path for backwards compatibility via an .inx file are gone.

I design freelance for a lot of different customers and once the design is complete, I have to deliver the InDesign file along with all associated fonts ad images to my clients. Most of my clients are still on CS3. If I upgrade to CS5 I will instantly not be able to work for 2/3 of my clients, as I will have no means by which to save a file backwards to CS3. I was informed by Adobe support that I would need to buy CS4 and CS5, as I could save my CS5 file in the IDML format and open it in CS4 and then I could save the file from CS4 as an INX file and open that is CS3. ARE THEY INSANE??? First off that requires keeping 3 version of InDesign up and running on my machine all of the time and secondly, why should I have to buy CS4 when I'm paying an additional fee to upgrade to CS5 because I didn't upgrade from CS4? This is so screwed up that it has to be an oversight---please tell me there is a patch in the works!!!

PS- I've never posted to a forum before, so if I have broken any rules of forum etiquette or offended in any way, I offer my apologies now and if I (and the Adobe Support staff I spoke to) have overlooked something, please enlighten me!

[macinbytes]

Did you removed the Apple Helv, Mr. Met?

http://indesignsecrets.com/removing-nonessential-system-fonts-in-leopard.php

http://www.jklstudios.com/misc/osxfonts.html

[BJN3]

Well said. Despite the condescending suggestions otherwise, many of us can't anticipate when there will be a need to save back a couple of versions. I just did two step-conversion back to inx from CS5 via CS4 and it's safe to say that's a workflow that should be reserved for emergencies.

I personally believe the file incompatibility treadmill is a barrier for many corporate users and upgrade sales suffer as a result. There's no "must have" feature in InDesign CS5 (or CS4, for that matter). My clients who are producing product manuals with my design and art direction have a big disincentive to upgrading from CS3. There's not only the license and implementation costs to consider, there's the issue of documentation standards and even production vendor support for the latest version of Adobe software. In this economy especially, there's no way I'd have the gall to suggest that my clients upgrade to CS5 when there's no tangible benefit to them besides maintaining compatibility with me. And if I'm defaulting to CS3 often to aviod back saving issues, I'm not going to explore the wonders of CS5 very much.

I'm not sure why InDesign gets a pass from the evangelist herd. Illustrator has deep back save format options for AI, EPS and PDF. Photoshop doesn't suffer from the compatibility crunch. Flash lets you work in earlier version compatible modes (that's what I think InDesign should offer).

[BobLevine]

Really, and then what? So you've used all the new features in CS5 and because you can save back as far as you want you save a file to CS2 and simply assume it's going to be fine. Off it goes and the client blows a gasket because it doesn't look anything like the PDF you sent.

Additionally, what new feature would you have sacrified for this? Afterall it's a new feature and that means something else gets left out. So perhaps we give up balanced columns? Splt/Span Columns? Multiple page sizes?

Of course you've already said:

There's no "must have" feature in InDesign CS5 (or CS4, for that matter)

So why did you bother upgrading to begin with?

And stop comparing Illy with ID. Quark would be a far better comparison and it's got the same issues.

Bob

[peterpica]

Well said, Bob!

If I ever get into a debate on software, I pray that you're on my side.

[BobLevine]

Praying won't help, Peter. Cash on the other hand...

[peterpica]

Sorry; O'bama already has my pension funds earmarked.

;-(

[Joel Cherney]

I'm the guy who usually disagrees with Bob about relying on backsaving in any given workflow, and in this case he is completely right.

If you want to know exactly how I manage to keep reliable workflows running in a nonprofit using four different versions of ID (five any day now, I'm sure), I can tell you all about it. The first rule is, "Keep all versions of ID installed at all times," and the second rule is "Start saving money for the next CS six to nine months before you think it will come out."

[Peter Spier]

I can see offering licenses for previous versions at the same price as the upgrade price when they were issued, if these earlier version licenses are purchased concurrently with the latest version (whether new or upgrade). This would allow users to fill in gaps or buy previous versions if they need them and are starting out now.

I can even see some merit in allowing users to purchase previous versions at any time IF you have a license for another version already. The question is whether this would make any kind of cost-to-benefit sense for Adobe as they'd have to maintain a download site (no way an inventory of physical media for older versions makes sense) and handle the purchasing traffic (as well as field all the support calls at which time they'd no doubt have to explain that non-current versions are not eligible for free support of any kind).

[Harbs.]

John,

Under certain circumstances it is possible to get a downgrade for collaberative work with those still using older versions.

You can't do it with a boxed version, and you need to buy it from someone who knows what they are doing (either a knowledgeable person at Adobe, or a knowledgeable reseller). I've gotten downgrades for clients using the ME version, and I don't see a reason why I couldn't get them for the regular version as well. If anyone needs help with this, they can send me a PM, and I can see what I can do...

Harbs

[Joel_Glovier]

So allow me to again make a suggestion. Not only should you go to CS5 but you should upgrade to CS4 NOW. You can still get CS4 Design Premium upgrade from CS3 at Amazon for less  than $600 http://amzn.to/bGV8ID. Then check out this article: http://bit.ly/c9HLKf to see how you can get  a free upgrade to CS5.

Did anybody notice here that sneaky Mr BobLevine is hoping to make some money off of his advice to Ms. Cynthia? The above link to the product he is strongly encouraging her to buy is actually an affiliate link.

IDK but that seems a little shady to me for such strong advice without a disclaimer. Is it normal for "Community Professionals" to do that around here??

[peterpica]

Bob Levine's integrity is beyond reproach; I think you're looking for trouble where there is none.

He remains THE most knowledgeable and professional InDesign advocate out there today.

[Joel_Glovier]

Well I'm glad he has a fan club too.

I'm just saying it's a little shady if he's looked at as such an expert that he would give such strong advice to people who may be just looking for fair objective advice (AKA the purpose of a forum like this), but he stands to benefit monetarily from said "objective" advice without disclaimer.

But you're right, I'm just looking for trouble - I recant. 🙂

[BobLevine]

I make no secret of the fact that I have an Amazon Associates account. The fact that I make a few bucks off it while helping others does not bother me one bit.

The fact is the OP saved herself $200. How exactly does anyone lose in that situation?

Bob

[peterpica]

Not a fan club; just one (of many) who's benefitted from Bob's knowledge and advice WITHOUT MONETARY CONSIDERATION.

Your disparaging remarks serve no purpose and are irrelevant to the nature and spirit of this forum.

Regards.

[Cynthia_Ryan_Graphic]

And I am very grateful for the savings. Thanks Bob.

[Joel_Glovier]

You're right - I'm sorry guys. I was just really annoyed by this same issue myself and wanted to pick a fight. I was dumb.

To be honest I have my fair share of frustrations with the way Adobe does business these days. I used to really appreciate their company, especially the customer service aspect - until about a year ago when they outsourced their customer service.

I've just grown increasingly frustrated with many aspects of Adobe, and the latest is this backward compatibility deal with InDesign where we hired a freelancer to do some artwork that I didn't have time to do, and somebody else in our office who has CS3 on that machine which is rarely used cannot open the file. She is a marketing specialist, not a designer, but will need to edit that document as a template regularly. So now we have to pay to upgrade the creative suite on that machine if she wants to be able to use that document, because neither the freelancer nor I (the full time designer) have a copy of CS3.

It's just a really big pain in the butt for all the money we give Adobe already.

So I googled the issue and found this thread, where everybody is basically patting Adobe on the back about the issue, and if frustrated me.

Sorry for being a troll.

(FYI - we are a nonprofit charity medical organization, not a design firm or ad agency; so if that puts any of this in better context....)

[Peter Spier]

Joel,

If you need to have a templated converted back becasue you don't have the intermediate versions (and can live with the possible damage this will do to the design and don't intend to use it on CS5 as well), there are any number of us here who would do that for you, including Bob, at no cost. You need only ask.

[Joel_Glovier]

Peter, thank you for your generosity (and grace). Seriously.

But the frustration still lies with the fact that I still face that dilema every time myself or a freelancer needs to create something for this coworker to use on that machine. Obviously I can't come to the forum every time I need a file converted. 🙂

Honestly the right thing to do is to convince my boss that we should upgrade her software to CS5. Since I'm the in-house creative and I'm on CS5, as are both of our freelancers, that makes the most sense I think.

[Peter Spier]

That's absolutely correct. Do you know that many non-profits qualify for reduced cost software from Adobe? You can probably get a stand-alone ID CS5 license for less than $200 if you qualify.

[Joel_Glovier]

Yeah, I've gone through JourneyEd before, and also we have an account with CDW that I bought a handful of InCopy licenses for us last spring for the nonprofit discount.

Does Adobe do the nonprofit discount directly, or do I need to go through a vendor like CDW?

[Peter Spier]

I think the program has changed so that you get the education discount and need to use a vendor.

[bsnebold]

Peter, when you pay for the CS5 upgrade get ready to treat yourself to really terrific features such as the way InDesign no longer gives you a progress bar when exporting a PDF and Photoshop has removed the ability to convert between different layer fill types (solid, gradient, etc.). Also get ready to play Russian roulette with some fonts that Photoshop doesn't like that will shut down the program. Don't get me wrong, content aware fill alone is practically worth the upgrade price, but it's a shame that Adobe's quality has suffered so much. I've used Adobe software since version 1 of Illustrator and I could always count on their software being rock solid, but their latest release has been a disappointment. I hope they get new management.

[Peter Spier]

I'm curious what this has to do with backward compatibility in ID?

As far as the progress bar (the only ID-related subject I see inthe post), it's there if you open the Background Tasks panel (admittedly not too convenient, but then again, making export a background task was intended to get it out of your face). If you want the old progress bar and foreground export, there's ascript floating around in one or two of the threads realted to problems with export to PDF, or you can put your file in a book and export from there.

[peterpica]

watching a progress bar is great sport for clock watchers, but for those having other things to do is quite useless

[bsnebold]

Right. Let's just remove all progress bars from all applications then. Just because a progress bar is visible doesn't mean it has to be stared at. It's just nice to know how long a process is going to take. Thankfully, there are people like Bob who are more helpful.