InDesign can no longer access a file

Report · Nov 18, 2017

Twice now I've received this message:

It has prompted me to reinstall ID 2017 because I've lost time and edits. I thought maybe the latest version would have solved this, but no.

I did not move this file in any way.

Any ideas?

Report · May 22, 2018

It most certainly does address the issue. Renaming any file or folder while it's in use is risky at best.

Learn to use all of your tools and learn to use them properly.

And FWIW, Windows does not allow renaming of in-use files and folders.

Report · May 22, 2018

So. much. condescension.

Report · May 22, 2018

Honestly we're trying to help here. My response wasn't meant to be condescending, but instead I was just trying to stress that what you're doing is a bad idea. You need to understand that when you open a file, it's loaded into memory and is technically a separate entity from the file on the hard drive during that time. So there's a disconnect between the open file and where it's stored to some degree. Best practices of file management is to not do anything to a file while it's open.

Report · May 22, 2018

Thanks for your remarks Chad. I'm sorry if I expressed anger and frustration, but I do feel that the problem here is not the user. And I feel like we're being blamed for a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.

Even if there is a risk during file renaming, there are different questions to be asked, such as the ones in my previous post.

Report · May 22, 2018

If we stopped asking those questions, apps and operating systems would never be improved upon. I hope Adobe can design an elegant solution to this problem in the future.

Report · May 22, 2018

The best way to communicate that to the people who can make those decisions is through InDesign UserVoice: It's the place to report bugs and make feature requests that the product managers read. Here, you're speaking to other users like yourself. Here's a link to that website:

Feature Requests/Bugs

Report · May 22, 2018

Adobe cannot fix operating system flaws. For someone who doesn’t like blame being pointed in the wrong direction you sure have no problem doing it yourself. This one needs to be taken up with Apple.

Report · May 22, 2018

@rosacreative, I agree with your opinion that all programmers should be more user focused. Please continue to ask for better software from all our manufacturers. It's the only way things can improve.

But this issue goes to the core of computer operating systems and programs. As a former programmer (and still a designer/creative), I know fully well what happens behind the scenes when we open a file and work on it.

Regardless of the software and operating system, it essentially is the same: launch a file and a whole lot of "tentacles" get spread across the computer's operating system just to handle and manage that one file. Basic courses for users stress that we shouldn't go and change any name of the main file or its tentacles while we have it open. The entire system can go haywire and damage the file itself, sometimes beyond recovery.

It's not a question of retooling the interface; what's at stake is the process of how files are used by the operating system. That's not an easy item to muck around with while the file is open and in use.

I doubt we'll see anything change in this area for a while. If ever. In our lifetimes, that is.

Report · May 22, 2018

Bevi, thanks for your thoughtful response. I cannot fully comprehend the things that go on in the background while a file is open, but I understand the risks of renaming a file while it is open. My husband is a developer and I understand how complex apps can get.

But, as much as we may like to, we cannot control a user's behavior. However, we can control what actions they can or cannot perform through thoughtful interface design, whether on the OS or the apps. We have come a long way with user experience design, and while it once may have been acceptable for users to have to avoid causing errors, there has thankfully been a shift in focusing on designing seamless experiences.

As I previously stated, Pages (a Mac app) has a beautiful (maybe not permanent) solution to this problem, and I find myself wondering why more apps don't follow suit. While the Mac OS still allows the renaming a file while open (currently a problem), Pages solves that by allowing a quick rename within the app itself, without jumping through multiple steps to rename a file. It's solutions like these and outside-the-box-thinking that give rise to better future interactive design and more pleasant to use apps.

But I will forward my thoughts and feedback to the proper channel as Steve suggested. Thanks for your insight.

Report · May 22, 2018

No way, do not stop asking these questions! You might cause the developers to think of newer and better ways of dealing with these problems. I will say though that my car can go 150 mph but as a driver (user) I know not to. The vehicle manufacturers know that nobody should go that fast so why don't they govern all cars to 65 mph? I'm just trying to leave you with a thought for the day 😉 Not provoking more argument! Cheers!

Report · May 22, 2018

Windows also prevents me from ejecting a disk because the explorer window for that disk is open. I'm not using it but somehow Windows thinks I am. My point is that there's pros and cons to both approaches.

Report · May 22, 2018

Haven’t had that happen but the point was this is an O/S level safety feature.

There is no advantage I can see to allowing a file to be renamed while it’s open. I’m open to scenarios but it’s pointless. We have people using computers without proper training and rather than simply learn to use things properly want to blame everyone but themselves for making a mess.

It’s like trying to drive a nail with the back of a screwdriver and then complaining about difficult it is.

Report · May 22, 2018

This is not an OS problem, nor is it the user's fault; it's a bug in InDesign.

macOS users can rename a file that's in use without consequence.

Here's why:

Filenames on macOS (and most Unix-based systems) don't matter that much. The filesystem assigns every file a unique ID, so a file can be addressed in the same way no matter its name or location.

Windows doesn't allow for moving/renaming because, once upon a time, it tracked files based on their location (rather than an ID). This would, indeed, have made it dangerous to rename a file in use (or, as you mentioned, eject a drive that's being viewed in Explorer).

As a consequence, Windows needs the speed limit signs you mentioned; macOS, however, doesn't, as this particular interaction simply doesn't cause problems. No need for a safety net. Apple designed for this interaction; it is not a need of a few users who accidentally find it's possible. "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" doesn't make sense here, as this is a fundamental interaction that the OS definitely accounts for.

(As far as I know, this was a design flaw in Windows that Microsoft solved long ago with NTFS, but I think they keep the behavior around -- that is, they prevent users from renaming open files -- for historical reasons.)

Most importantly, however, you can rename an open file in other Adobe applications, including previous versions of InDesign (as has already been noted). If you have access to a Mac with the latest macOS and Adobe CC, try it yourself:

Create a new file in Photoshop and save it
With the file still open in Photoshop, open a Finder window and rename the file you just created
Keep working on the file in Photoshop
Save it again

You'll see that Photoshop realizes the file name has changed, and it updates accordingly. It doesn't crash.

Many apps on the Mac behave in this way; you can try the same process in Pages, Keynote, etc. It Just Works™. The OS is smart enough to see when a file changes and notify any interested apps of the change, so that they can deal with the change appropriately. Any user who chooses to rename an open file would have reason to believe they could do so without issue, as plenty of other apps do just that.

InDesign just doesn't. Instead, it crashes. So, you're correct: this should probably be a bug report for the InDesign team.

BobLevine

On the contrary: only an experienced Mac and CC user will know they can rename files whenever and however they need to, regardless of whether the file is open. Only a person who's used macOS extensively would expect it to work, because it's done so in the past.

InDesign's failure to account for this fundamental interaction with the OS is Adobe's miss. There are plenty of situations that may give rise to the need for InDesign to handle it. Off the top of my head:

The user doesn't want to go through the rigamarole of saving a copy and deleting the original
The user wants to rename the file but keep all other file attributes (e.g. Created/Updated At, file permissions, and other metadata)
The user has interacted with the system in this way before and therefore rightfully has the expectation that InDesign would behave no differently than other apps, including Adobe's
The user forgot InDesign was open and was rearranging their files (happens to the best of us)

I'm sure you could think of more if you tried.

But, as was noted earlier, the why doesn't matter. It's something that is quite inevitable, as the OS and other apps account for it. InDesign shouldn't crash for something so basic.

Report · May 22, 2018

So let me get this straight.....

Mac accounted for this user behavior in their OS design and renaming open files is possible because of thoughtful design
Adobe InDesign is the problem.

From one Mac power user to another, thank you for your insightful and helpful answer. I would be a bad designer to not defend the everyday users around the world interacting with bad software experiences.

I'll be reporting the InDesign bug as I have had the same experience you've described and I've tested it in a few different apps on my Mac including Photoshop. Only InDesign is giving me problems.

Report · May 22, 2018

I suppose next you’ll be telling me that we shouldn’t be using file extensions, either.

Good luck with your workflow practices. I’ll stick to not corrupting my files.

Report · May 22, 2018

Hey, you're not wrong! In Unix, the file extension doesn't matter; the file system knows what a file is based on its attributes. Neat, eh? (I think in some instances macOS does rely on file extensions, and apps definitely do; therefore, Finder warns you when you try to change file extensions.)

However, I wasn't saying one or the other was superior, and I certainly wouldn't tell others how to name their files; rather, I was saying that InDesign 100% should definitely not crash when a file is renamed. The OS and other apps, including Adobe's own apps, account for this functionality. It's an InDesign bug, period.

If you're coming from a Windows background, I can see why this would be confusing or seem dangerous. But Windows and macOS are fundamentally different systems, and there is zero risk of "corrupting your files" by simply renaming them in macOS.

This is not an instance of "uneducated" users misusing or breaking their tools. Rather, it's an instance of experienced InDesign users interacting with the system as it was designed, and stumbling upon an unfortunate bug in the process.

And hey! Looks like the bug was already reported. Whaddya know.

Report · May 22, 2018

Finally, someone that understands and can explain it. Thank you.

And thank you rosacreative for defending the everyday user.

Report · May 22, 2018

No prob! Lkretschmar

It looks like the bug has been previously reported as well as verified by the Adobe team.

Feel free to vote on the bug. Maybe it'll get some attention this way.

File rename – Adobe InDesign Feedback