InDesign CS5

[Petteri_Paananen]

David and Anne-Marie has made an excellent article about InDesign CS5 new features...

http://indesignsecrets.com/roundup-of-indesign-cs5-features-honest-this-time.php

I´m very exited specially about those new interactive features...

[Harbs.]

[Jongware] wrote:

Word import problems:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/2620366#2620366 and http://forums.adobe.com/message/2615935#2615935

Decidedly not fixed, as I saw it today again on CS4 6.0.4; both "let's break the paragraph here and insert the rest of it at the end" and "now where should that footnote go? Let's insert a Replacement Character (U+FFFD) and have the user figger it out."

Symbol re-mapping problem:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/2360336#2360336

Happened only last week, also on a fully updated '4.

Jongware sent me a problematic file, and based on that file, it looks like these two issues are fixed in CS5.

Harbs

[designerdave72]

Will colours in the Swatch palette *finally* be in numerical order?

[Peter Spier]

designerdave72 wrote:

Will colours in the Swatch palette *finally* be in numerical order?

What do you mean by "numerical order?" Do all your swatches have a number prefix? Are you talking about Pantone Spot colors?

As far as I know there's no difference in how swatches are added or listed, new ones would appear at the bottom of the least, but you can drag into any order you like.

[Big_Jimm]

I have IDcs5 on order from Adobe to be shipped on April 29. (Also updates for Illustrator, PS and Acrobat).

So far I'm a little disappointed to hear that the main new feature of ID “seems to be” that it will make smaller pages.

I would much rather hear that it has great new special effects, word manipulation, etc. (I watched the intro Monday

and most of the videos but it appeared to me that most of the changes were fairly minor - like going from cs3 to cs4.

But, anyway, I'm dying to get all 4 new programs! It’s just that I love ID and keep hoping that it will go more “graphic.”

I HATE Illustrator because it never seems like much ”fun” to work with. But, I keep buying it and not using it much.

QUESTION: Does anyone know when the first book will be out for ID?

Thanks.

[guardaroba]

Some of the new features sound as though they'll be quite useful (different page sizes and some of the UI improvements especially), but I have to say I'm quite annoyed that endnotes still haven't been introduced to InDesign. The official help file still has to send readers to a blog for a work around (http://help.adobe.com/en_US/InDesign/CS5/Using/WSa285fff53dea4f8617383751001ea8cb3f-6f37a.html), which seems, to be honest, pathetic.

The fact that time and resources have been put into making InDesign able to produce and output Flash files and place video files into PDFs while ignoring endnotes, notes in tables, footnotes spanning columns, improved tables, etc. makes the whole update feel like a bit of a slap in the face to print designers.

Anyway, anger aside, does anyone know why it's taking so long for what seems like such a small change? Part of the reason that I'm so annoyed is that it seems as though, now that footnotes are supported, it would be quite simple to enable dynamic endnotes (aren't they just footnotes pulled to the end of the document, rather than the bottom of each page?). Or am I missing something? I'm no software developer, so it's certainly possible!

[BobLevine]

It's certainly not a slap in the face to ALL print designers. I can honestly tell you that I've been using ID since version 1.0 and have never created a document that needed footnotes or endnotes.

I'm not minimizing the need for this, but there most certainly has to be a very big technical challenge to get this right or it would have been done by now. Just because you think it's simple doesn't make it so.

I'm still waiting for PDF form fields. Seems simple enough, but they're just not there.

Bob

[guardaroba]

You're right, of course, that not all print designers need all of these features. For that matter, I've used InDesign since version 1 as well and have never felt the need to have a footnote span two columns (I just plain don't like footnotes and use endnotes wherever possible, which is why it's always the first missing feature that comes to my mind!). I was mostly referring to the new emphasis on Flash authoring and interactive PDFs, even while there are still a number of long-document-production features missing.

Anyway, I'll add PDF form fields to my list of requests as well, in solidarity.

[Eugene Tyson]

BobLevine wrote:

I'm not minimizing the need for this, but there most certainly has to be a very big technical challenge to get this right or it would have been done by now. Just because you think it's simple doesn't make it so.

Well I don't know how true that is? I read before, I think on this forum, that InDeisign could easily output the vectors from a PSD file, all the programmers have to do is add some lines of code... or something to that effect, I'm not a developer or anything so perhaps I'm using the wrong terminology or over simplifying what was said.

edit* Actually found the posts here http://forums.adobe.com/message/2498365#2498365

But all in all, the news was that InDesign could export the vector data in PSD files if the programmers just programmed it to do it.

So perhaps footnotes are just being neglected because there isn't enough demand to update them... or yes it could be the fact that it's too dificult.

Who knows?

[BobLevine]

It could do ANYTHING if it was programmed to it.

Just because you read it here, doesn't necessarily make it so, either.

Bob

[Eugene Tyson]

I'm always the optimist, Bob.

[iogeorgescu123]

Hi all,

To say its's a slap in the face is maybe a to strong word. I also can agree that not everybody needs all the features and that everyone will find something useful in the new features. However there are A LOT of users (me included) that need footnotes (almost everyone that makes technical books, a lot of magazines - where you need to bee more flexible with the footnotes) and so on.

And there is also another aspect of the problem. InDesign has imposed itself as a follower for PageMaker and concurrent to QuarkXPress. Both DTP programs. Not multimedia.That's why we did choose InDesign (and not Dreamware, MS Office, Flash....).

It's OK implement new features, even multimedia. However it's not OK to disregard the needed improvement in its own domain of work (DTP, the reason for which PageMaker/InDesign where created) only because the general trend now is multimedia. There still are books, magazines, etc. to be printed. In a word DTP (speaking of software).

I believe each field of activity needs its own applications, it's own software. Domains may overlap, but application must remain focused on its domain (DTP in this case). Because if this is not so, why have a InDesign, Illustrator, Photoshop, etc. Why not have just one BIG multieverything application, that does whatever the trend of the moment is (and some other things to, not so trendy, like vector graphic, bitmap graphic, etc.)?

[Eugene Tyson]

I agree that some of the updates to InDesign were a little "out there". But I downloaded the trial, InDesign won't be a replacement for a good flash expert, not in any shape or form. It's clunky in my opinion.

I do agree that more efforts to it's main core of work and purpose should have been addressed, I too am so annoyed that footnotes got the heave-ho once again. How making "better and easier rounded corners" became more important is beyond me. Yes there are improvements as a whole to the "how we select things" in the long run the enhancemnets will make designing a bit easier. But long documents will still be a pain especially with a double or more column layout requiring footnotes, endnotes, etc. Table Styles weren't improved on either, and variables still can't span lines (I don't know how many times in 18 months I typed up instructions to faux break variables, and someone even invented Power Headers, which for some reason wasn't taken on board).

All in all the enhancements are ok, some really new cool features, but overall it's a bit clunky. The Gap tool on a single spread with just text and 1 image was slow and clunky. Although it's a neat feature.

However, you're upset about footnotes like I am then register your desire here http://forums.adobe.com/thread/619776?tstart=0

And please fill out the wishform too, together we can make it happen. And pass on the info of the wishlist to all footnote lovers that you know too.

[Guest]

I shoud like to know if it is now possible in InDesign CS5 to create a simple flash banner to place directly in a website?

Or is it necessary to do the finishing and ad actionscripting in Flash?

🙂 Nina Storm

[BobLevine]

Yes, Nina, you can do that...quite easily.

Bob

[Guest]

Thanks Bob

I found

http://www.theindesigner.com/blog/indesign-cs5-sneak-preview-yes%E2%80%A6this-is-real

Have to wait a few months, but sure sounds nice.

I am not sure where Adobe wants us to use Flash Catalyst, sounds more like a preparation for flash.

🙂 Nina Storm

[Guest]

@Nina:

I have been waititng for InDesign CS5 as I believed that Flash Banners could be created directly in InDesign for putting on Websites.

My concerns are that although creating the SWF itself seem perfectly possible, we have to put a button over the entire SWF with a clicktag actionscript that allows clicks throughs from the website to be tracked. I think that I will still have to take the SWF into Flash to do this.

Another concern is that the banners have to be under 39k in file size and I don't know good a job InDesign will do with keeping files size down.

Simon.

[BobLevine]

You'll never get a SWF out of ID that small, IMO.

As Petteri pointed out the size is an issue right now. I suspect that will get worked on as time goes on but right now, I'd be looking at SWF from ID for online documents and presentations. Banner ads, unless Google eases up on its 50k requirement are not a good candidate.

Bob

[Petteri_Paananen]

Nina Storm wrote:

I shoud like to know if it is now possible in InDesign CS5 to create a simple flash banner to place directly in a website?

Or is it necessary to do the finishing and ad actionscripting in Flash?

🙂 Nina Storm

Here´s one I have made with InDesign CS5:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/133381/banner.html

I had to make a custom motion path in Flash in order to get this work, but after that it was very easy. It´s by the way a great thing that you can do your own motion paths in Flash by using Motion Editor...

Another thing that bothers me a little with this banner project is optimization. InDesign puts all kinds of stuff to that SWF and filesize is a bit high, 160kt with this small one. Its over 100kt even if you have nothing in your SWF... but I have heard that this is something Adobe may fix later...

And of course all SWFs are actionscript 3 compatible, that may be a problem with some banner projects...

[Petteri_Paananen]

Many people (mostly "print makers") have been said that they are disappointed with all these new interactive tools instead of more traditional print related features. Interactivity is a part of publishing today. Period. And there are millions of people who has to do interactive documents. And IMO it´s very nice that you can do all kinds of works with one familiar software instead of jumping around between different softwares.

And interactivity and electronic distribution will grow in next few years, we are going to have new devices where to publish stuff, aprx. 10.000.000 people will buy some of 60 different tablet devices in next 12-18 months. Publishing to intenernet and all kinds of electronic book and magazines stores will continue growing. More and more publishers of free magazines moves to internet instead of printing.

You designers who make only printed products, you may face new situations in coming years, your clients may require that you have to prepare your documents for electronic publisihing and make them even interactive, would you rather do that in indesign or learn Flash for instance... or even some third party workflow? I have a print designer background myself but I welcome all new technologies, I´m thrilled with possibility to learn new ways to make next generation publications, with my beloved tool InDesign.

[TᴀW]

Petteri,

I agree essentially with you, in that there's no harm embracing new technologies.

I share others' anger at the fact that, since currently work only in print publishing, InDesign CS5 does not save me any time on a daily basis (except for the columns thing, which may or may not work; it was very slow in beta, and was not compatible with keep options). Any one of my top-ten feature requests (see the Feature Request forum) would have saved me time on a daily basis. Instead, the programmers precious time was devoted to (for me) gimmicky flashy stuff. The future of Flash anyway seems to have a question mark next to it right now.

Ariel

[guardaroba]

I'm actually very interested in dynamic/interactive design, and have been recently trying to learn Flash better. It's funny, after getting frustrated with the Flash workspace I wouldn't be surprised if InDesign worked better as a development environment at the illustration/layout stage than Flash itself. On the other hand, I'd be surprised if Flash files built exclusively in InDesign (rather than using a combination of InDesign/Illustrator/Flash) ended up offering much beyond basic animation, which is, frankly, an aspect of Flash that has given it a bit of a bad name. It also won't help if it's true that the files are also larger than those made by Flash. Besides which, it's hard to imagine that Flash won't become less popular as things like HTML5 become more mature (and Steve Jobs becomes less mature ).

After reading the complete list of new features in the help file (thanks for posting that link!) some of them sound really exciting. Live captions pulled from image data sounds new and innovative; I just wish the skill and energy that was put into that kind of feature had been focused more on improving InDesign's print abilities before turning to animation. For print design, it's pretty well all there is!

Anyway, it's an interesting debate.

[Guest]

I cannot agree more.  Almost a decade ago, as a publisher I exhibited at Book Expo America in Chicago with my product mBook™ - which is a multimedia-enhanced .pdf -- then packaged on CD and available through many bookstores.  I was trying to create awareness of the economy and portability of publishing in this manner. There were cookbooks with video, mysteries with alternate endings, animated covers, videos that set the scene, sound effects to accompany rain, bar scenes, traffic and event a simulated AOL chat room with scrolling room conversation.  I was even invited to exhibit through Microsoft's booth for their ClearType technology. Readers were intrigued, but booksellers scoffed. "No one will ever read on a computer," they said.

Well, roll forward to the present and see the explosion of ebooks -- now those same publishers are scrambling for a piece of the market and the best they have to offer is the .epub format.  I bought a new iPad on release day and hoped by some miracle to find a way to get mBooks™ to play -- I can read .pdfs, but none of the multimedia.  But that's not the only tablet coming out and even though I'm a loyal Mac owner (ever since the first 128k), Apple is going to have to give in on their HTML 5 silliness and provide a product that consumers can really use across the board.

I'm a veteran of paper printing - was literally born into the family business over 50 years ago and learned to set type at the age of seven on a hot lead Linotype. InDesign and the world of multimedia-enhanced publishing is here, at least until it's replaced by something better.  I've worked through the transition from hot lead - offset - digital, and there's no going back.  As a publisher, offering a paper version of a book is an incentive add-on, but no longer the primary product. Digital publishing is an economic certainty.

[Bob_Bringhurst_-_Adobe]

By the way, here's the What's New section of InDesign CS5 Help.

[TᴀW]

Dear Bob B.,

Back in CS2, the "Adobe Help Centre" (that was thankfully offline) included a real, manmade index.

Is there any chance of getting a real index back? Pretty please?

There is no comparing an index created by a human with computer-generated search results. The index was very helpful for quickly finding necessary information.

Thanks,

Ariel

[Bob_Bringhurst_-_Adobe]

Ariel - I agree with you about the index being a useful tool. Unfortunately, the index is gone not only in the CS5 help system, but also in the PDF version. I'll report your request.