InDesign CS5

[Petteri_Paananen]

David and Anne-Marie has made an excellent article about InDesign CS5 new features...

http://indesignsecrets.com/roundup-of-indesign-cs5-features-honest-this-time.php

I´m very exited specially about those new interactive features...

[Big_Jimm]

Very, very sorry. This shows that I am old, stupid and clearly out of my league on here. But, I don’t know where else to go with my questions. Please tell me how to turn off the document view.

And, should I have started a new topic regarding setting the default page?

Thank you.

[Peter Spier]

Not a problem...

This is the place to come if you have questions. A new thread would have been good, but since you're already here and it would be more confusing to branch off now, we'll continue. In the InDesign preferences, go to the Interface section and uncheck the box "Open Documents as Tabs."

[Big_Jimm]

Peter —

I’m not sure I was clear on my “window size” question. I want to make a template (as I had with CS3) which will save my window size at about 8.5 x 11. This to prevent ID from automatically spreading the full pasteboard every time I open it .. necessitating dragging it closed, readjusting it, etc.

(If I need more pasteboard while working, I like to just scroll over to it.)

I believe you had suggested: “In preferences, go to the Interface section and uncheck the box "Open Documents as Tabs." But, that didn’t seem to work for me. Any second thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you.

[Peter Spier]

I suspect you're just out of luck if that didn't work (I like the tabs myself and use the extra width on my monitor to park a lot of panel groups that I can keep open, which pushes the application window a bit narrower).

Your'e the first person I've ever heard complain that the pastebaord was too wide.

[Big_Jimm]

I have a Mac and am liking cs5 a LOT. Very nice to work with. Glad I upgraded from cs3. (Of course .. I still can’t set a template where it will open with the pasteboaed reduced to the size I like it, instead of spreading out all over my 24” screen and covering up everything else). Wish someone had a solution for this. I could set a template, with a reduced pasteboard size, just fine in cs3.  But, the size setting won’t “take” in cs5.

BUT, NEW question please. I know you gurus must love this but, I find it annoying: how can I turn off the little dimension pop-up that follows the curser?

As always, thank you so much.

[Jochen_F__Uebel]

@ Big Jimm:

Q1:

Resize application frame.

Quit ID.

Start ID.

Q2:

cmd/Strg+K.

Input > Transformation values.

[Big_Jimm]

Thank you. I did get my dimension curser pop-up stopped, pretty much as you suggested:
Prefs > interface > uncheck “show transformation values.”

However, regarding the full screen of pasteboard, my son tells me that I’m stating my question wrong. That the following should be my question:

I use the same template over and over and want to size that template window to a particular size and have ID remember that sizing when the template is opened again. Is there a way to have an ID template (and later the documents that were created from it) remember the window sizing so I don't have to re-size the window every time I reopen?

Thank you.

[Jochen_F__Uebel]

New  Document

Make all changes

Save Preset…

Choose name "[Default]"

[Big_Jimm]

This is a test. Have been trying to get a message on here.

Please let me know if this gets though.

Thank you.

Jim

[Peter Spier]

It's here.

[Big_Jimm]

My unfortunate CS5 experience with Adobe Techs:

My problem .. CS5 won’t SAVE the Window Size (as I’ve discussed here).

Adobe FINALLY admitted that there is a window size saving flaw with CS5 (at least on the Mac).

You won’t believe this but it’s TRUE: I’ve spent HOURS on the phone with Adobe techs over this. Many different techs thinking I’d get a “new” one who would shed a new light on my simple issue .. which was .. If I open an ID template, or document, 50 times a day, I have to resize the window 50 times a day! Because the ID window and pasteboard spread out clear across my 24” screen every time, regardless of the size I saved it at. Extremely annoying.  My CS3 - and every other program I know - saves the window size.

When talking to the techs, the frustration was almost maddening. I am NOT prejudice in ANY way. But, for benefit of my fellow Adobe users, my experience has to be shared. EVERY ONE of the techs was from India. And, I talked to MANY different ones. My last contact with Adobe was yesterday and for about 2 hours where she connected to my computer, again went over everything, had me reinstall the DVD then FINALLY concluded that the problem is with CS5.

Adobe’s record will reflect the following:

I have now spent HOURS on this “simple issue” with different ID techs. Sometimes the techs would put me on hold for 45 minutes while he/she “checked on something.” I mean dead silence hold, no music, no recorded voice, no coming back to say he/she was still there. You just sit there and WAIT! 3 different techs, logged into my computer to check things.

Almost all of the hours of the conversations went like this:

I can’t understand you.
What did you say?
Will you repeat that?
Was that letter a B or a D?
I didn’t get that.
Could you say that again?
I got the first part but not the second part.
I got it all but the third word.
Can you speak a little louder?
Can you speak a little slower?
Do you have a co-worker who speaks a little better English?

Adobe seems to have turned everything over to India with millions of Americans out of work.
But, I must say this: they were all extremely courteous, patient, probably very smart and tried to be helpful. But, the communication frustration was maddening. Right now I would rather take a beating than call Adobe tech again. My heart can’t stand it. Maybe that’s what they want. I would pay a good fee to be guaranteed an American speaking person when I call tech. What Adobe is saving on cheap labor is being used up in huge time loss. Instead of one hour, an American tech’s call (from Americans) would last 3 minutes.
Adobe could put on their recorder: “Push 1 for English.”

[Guest]

I don't think you've gone through anything that the rest of us cannot relate to -- Adobe's technical support has grown to be horrendous.  They have publicly acknowledged this and promised to make the necessary changes to improve it, but evidently that has not happened yet.  It is quite insulting to purchase expensive software (most of which you have paid for already in earlier versions), and to be a moderately intelligent person (evidenced by your use of their software), and to be "assisted" by a string of individuals who have obviously been employed because they were the cheapest thing available. It is the equivalent of waiting weeks for a reservation at a 5-star restaurant and being shown to a picnic table with a paper tablecloth.

My experience has been that the only way to behave, is to become the biggest pain you can possibly be so that your use of their time is very costly and they will go to great lengths to get you the information you need quickly.  This can be accomplished by calling the sales department, instead of technical support.  Sales suggests you may still be interested in being a customer -- in fact you can suggest you may be a decision maker for a bulk licensing agreement if you can ascertain whether the problem you're having has a solution.  This is unethical, but they've already set the rules for the game. Customer-retention is not a problem for Adobe.  They have no competition once you've invested in their tools.

If your blood isn't boiling already, you should know that when they place you on hold, they simply shut you off for a while, hoping you will cool down or get angry and go away. As employees for the company who provides tech support, they are permitted to only do certain things with the customer and their actions are being recorded. Placing you on hold is permissible.  While you are on hold, they either go on to other customers or pick their nose; whichever urge prevails.

Corporate decision-makers should be forced to conduct meetings through tech support and heads of state should be the first on the firing line...ain't life grand?

[Mr. Met]

I like when you call for help and this guy you can barely understand tells you his name is Eric or Mike or Lou. Seems all these "tech support" guys take on an American aliases as a sort of stage name.

More than once I've gotten so frustrated I said, forget the tech support, just cook me up some lamb vindaloo and paratha and don't get lost delivering it. To which the "tech person" responds, thank you for calling tech support, please hold to take a short survey. Aaarrrgggghhhhh!!!!!! Thanks anyway, Eric.

Edit: HA! I post my thread and an Adobe window pops up to take a survey. I press on the yes, I'll answer your questions button and the Adobe screen goes away. No survey or new window.

I rest my case.

[Jongware]

Heh heh heh. Same experience for me with "Kevin".

The questionnaire will magically appear when you leave the Adobe site entirely. It asked me "what were you doing on our site?", and when I answered "looking for trouble", the rest of the questions were kind of puzzled (e.g., "what did you hope to achieve", "did you succeed").

[peter_minneapolis]

When dealing with tech support:

* Verify that you are connected to tech support, not product support, sales support, customer support, etc.

* Get a case number IMMEDIATELY - accept no excuses. Get the person's name - real name if possible, stage first and last names, if that's all you can get. This is your tracking info, essential when pursuing complaints.

* Give a very brief statement of the problem. Say, "I don't mean to be impolite, but do you have any experience with this kind of problem? If so, how much - are you an expert with this problem?" If nothing that builds your confidence happens here, demand, politely, to be transferred immediately to the highest tech-support manager. DEMAND THIS!!

* Get the manager's name as above. Repeat the brief explanation and expertise questions.

* Get the manager to determine if anyone in the department has any expertise - not just mere surface familiarity. If have the manager stay on the line with you while you begin the conversation with that tech, and demand that the manager gets you a better tech if your expertise questions aren't answered to your satisfaction.

* If the manager balks, demand to speak to the highest manager in the division. If you get "that's me," or "I'm the highest you can go," ask for whoever that person reports to. Demand to be connected.

* Keep escalating.

Whether this solves anything is speculative, but report whatever happens here for the rest of the community.

"It's a bug" may be the newest version of "I'll check into it, or I'll report it." If the person claims to be reporting a bug, get the bug number. If there is none, it's not being reported.

As to the likelihood that consuming vast hours of phone-tech time as a plan to create corporate pain that could force a return to well-paid on-shore knowledgeable techs, forget it. In a Peter Cook and Dudley Moore skit about selling out one's integrity to the establishment media mogul, Lord Beaverbrook - the '70s equivalent of Rupert Murdoch or William Randolph Hearst - one accuses the other of being observed eating and drinking huge quantities of free stuff at one of "the Beav's" lavish publicity bashes. "Oh, I wasn't being taken in one bit. I was doing my best to infiltrate and break him from within, by eating as much as possible and costing him a bundle."

Yes, it's a shame. Write to the Adobe senior execs. Post the correspondence in the community.

Has the window size issue been reproduced on a Windows InDesign installation, or is the "bug" just on Mac? It might be helpful to know - perhaps it's just as designed on both platforms, and the bug thing is just a thinly-disguised ploy.

When I was doing tech support at another company, in a phone-training session, we were told that customers can always detect thinly-disguised disdain and disrespect; it's in the voice and every other nuance of the phone session. Some jerk (me, IIRC) asked if thickly-disguised disdain could also be easily detected. It was a cruel audience. Not a chuckle.

Meanwhile, continue to come here for your tech support from the online community - the best folks there are.

Regards,

Peter

_______________________

Peter Gold

KnowHow ProServices

[Big_Jimm]

Thanks to all. Your responses are really gratifying and surprising. I was concerned about reporting anything that might be critical of Adobe, thinking that some of you would nail me for reporting any negative Adobe experiences. I feel so much better about the forum now, knowing that we can be totally open and truthful.

So, while I’m “reporting” I might as well tell you about another Adobe CS5 experience:

I ordered ID CS5 and Photoshop extended CS5 at the same time around April 12th. A few days later, Photoshop came but no ID. I waited 4 or 5 days but still no ID.

So, I called India Central. Now, here’s another one of those “you won’t believe this:” I was transferred to 2 or 3 different people each of whom I could understand little. And, each putting me on hold for varying lengthy amounts of time while they “checked something.”

But, finally when the last person came back on line (and I had been on line with him for ALMOST AN HOUR during his research into the problem) he told me that when I ordered ID and PS, the ID stock was out. So, they sent PS ..  but then LOST MY ORDER FOR ID! They could find no record that I  ever even ordered it!

So, then he said he would write me a new order. I had paid for the 2 day shipping. I told him that the least they could do for me now was to overnight it to me. He put me on hold for another 10 minutes, then came back and said they wouldn’t do that. So I paid for the 2 day shipping and got it in 2 days. These experiences do not warm the cockles of one’s heart toward Adobe.

I am not an overall basher of ANY product or company. However, it is so refreshing to be on a forum where everyone can report honest experiences, good or bad. That’s when we learn and a forum is helpful .. and, I thank you all for that.

[Jongware]

However, it is so refreshing to be on a forum where everyone can report honest experiences, good or bad.

Well ... We (all) should not forget this is not a public forum, as in: it's Adobe's, right there under their own top domain name, running on their server (through Jive, which kinda lets it down (1) -- nevertheless!). We're merely guests in their home, and as far as I am concerted, they are a pretty amiable host. It might be a bit of a stretch to make this the Voice of Consumer Outrage Towards Adobe.

That said, there must be an official complaints route somewhere. Perhaps through the general "Contact Adobe" page?

(1) "2.e. You agree not to access or attempt to access the Services by any means other than the interface provided by Adobe [...]"

[Guest]

Then Adobe should practice good business sense and be grateful for the

feedback. Bad customer service costs them money.

[Harbs.]

There's actually a forum dedicated to complaints: http://forums.adobe.com/community/general/adobedotcom_feedback?view=overview

There's lots of people who are not happy with tech support,  but this discussion really belongs over there, and sending an email to adbecare@adobe.com is much more effective than complaining to a bunch of fellow users...

Personally I avoid tech support like the plague (with the exception of being on the giving end...). You'll get much better answers on these forums than you'd ever get from tech support (no matter which country they're based).

Harbs

[Edit] in case I didn't make it clear enough, the official route for complaints is the adbecare@adobe.com email address.[/Edit]

[Jeremy AB]

Big Jimm wrote:

I find it annoying: how can I turn off the little dimension pop-up that follows the curser?=

Aren't those just the smart guides? Turn them off under View>Grids & Guides.

[Jeremy AB]

I just upgraded yesterday from CS2 to CS5 (Design Standard) so that's a big leap for me, although I've been using CS3 for years at work. I'm going to be reading up in the Help about what's new but I guess I'll have to look elsewhere to see what was new in CS4. I think over all there are tons of great new features but the main hurdle coming from CS3 is the interface changes.

The Panels work slightly different and can get annoying. You used to be able to click a collapsed panel and then click the panel's tab to close it. Now you can't do that, you have to click the little right-pointing arrows, EXCEPT in Photoshop which works as it did before. I also don't get why all panel name are now uppercase letters which make them harder to read and take up more space.

I haven't warmed up to the "application bar" on the CS apps either. They don't seem to be consistent across the apps and they waste a lot of space in the middle. If they were consolidated more into the interface I would use them.

[BobLevine]

Check out these two articles on my website:

CS4: http://www.theindesignguy.com/cs4-thoughts.shtml

CS5: http://www.theindesignguy.com/cs5-thoughts.shtml

Bob

[Ramesh_Sapkota-KVOaZp]

me?

[Jongware]

You mean you or ME?

http://www.winsoft-international.com/ -- "The wait is over", as they say.

[Harbs.]

Yup. The ME version of CS5 is available...

Harbs