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Typothalamus
Known Participant
January 19, 2025
Answered

Inner margins, Offset printer, Rebuilding to compensate

  • January 19, 2025
  • 3 replies
  • 1115 views

My question pertains to the area of responsibility as a designer versus that of the offset printer's. I have a Taschen derrived design with somewhat narrow inner margins (1.2 cm inner, on a 21 x 26 book, with 1.1 outer and 1.5 bottom). Do I/must I be the one who is reponsible for ensuring the book block and all its finer adjustments allow those inner margins to effectively work and not see text/pages creep into the center crease, presumably by adjusting and tweaking those margins and in effect, the book's design (though, granted, I am definitely the one who defines it is 400 pages, hardback, rounded spine, and with hollow back to help it lay flat), OR is it more so the printer's technicians who take my design and make subtle and complex calculations and adjustments to ensure that the inner margins are given enough additional excess paper to bind and pages open properly, without excess arch or bunching, and effectively see my design work optimally and as intended? Do I need to be ready to tweak it all and have this highly complex layout redone in a manner that allows me to make those adjustments if called to do so?

I ask this now, after years of work, as I am faced with a need to determine whether to completely reset and redo this complicated, lengthy, and highly involved/designed architectural book in order to fix/respond to any problem with these inner margins that may arise in its otherwise aesthetically pleasing design, which may not work with the printer in the bound volume. Is it their purview to handle this?

I am in Taiwan, with very limited Chinese, to do this. Our partner printer lacks, for my taste, a sufficiently high-level of language expertise in English to convey these issues to me. A preliminary inquiry into this matter saw a request from them for a sample pdf with markings for cursory review – which led to a (for me with a German-minded approach), disconconcertingly simple "It's OK" response. I don't feel secure in this. 

I'm weary of the common-sense proscription against having narrow margins to avoid potential issues. Yes, that's obvious. However, for various reasons, a still reasonably narrow margin can be an attractive feature within a well-designed layout if executed right. In my design, increasing the inner margin to compensate damages the overall aesthetic. Taschen pulls it off, and in the same format size, and as a hardback. However, a key difference in this model (their budget series), is that they're all ~100 pp., while mine is 400pp, thus affecting the mechanical action and drape (and therefore, text falling into crease).

Correct answer Brad @ Roaring Mouse

Imposition issues are the printer's domain. They are expert (or should be) at calculating the proper amount of creep and bottling required. Chances are they aren't printing more than 16-page signatures, which for a bound book doesn't need much in the way of adjustment. This is definitely not your issue to calculate. As long as you have sufficient margins to accommodate the type of binding you are using (e.g. you wouldn't want too small an interior margin if you are perfect binding).

There are also new ways to deal with creep in imposition software that are better than simply adding creep (essentially pushing inward/ourward the page. Some newer software does it by ever so slightly squeezing or expanding the page horizontally. e.g. it might shrink a page 99.6% horizontally which you would never detect. This technique is particularly effective dealing with crossover on a centerspread of a signature.

3 replies

Brad @ Roaring Mouse
Community Expert
Brad @ Roaring MouseCommunity ExpertCorrect answer
Community Expert
January 20, 2025

Imposition issues are the printer's domain. They are expert (or should be) at calculating the proper amount of creep and bottling required. Chances are they aren't printing more than 16-page signatures, which for a bound book doesn't need much in the way of adjustment. This is definitely not your issue to calculate. As long as you have sufficient margins to accommodate the type of binding you are using (e.g. you wouldn't want too small an interior margin if you are perfect binding).

There are also new ways to deal with creep in imposition software that are better than simply adding creep (essentially pushing inward/ourward the page. Some newer software does it by ever so slightly squeezing or expanding the page horizontally. e.g. it might shrink a page 99.6% horizontally which you would never detect. This technique is particularly effective dealing with crossover on a centerspread of a signature.

Robert at ID-Tasker
Legend
January 20, 2025

@Typothalamus

 

How many pages per signature? 

 

EVA or PUR bound?

 

Typothalamus
Known Participant
January 20, 2025

Hi Robert. Smyth sewn, so neither just EVA or PUR. Pages per signature would not be our purview, I believe. This is the print partner's to determine, handle. Your view? Smyth sewn for:

  • Better durability
  • Better opening characteristics
  • More appropriate for the archival nature of the content
  • More consistent with the production values of publishers like Taschen
  • Better handling of those narrow margins discussed earlier

 

 

 

Robert at ID-Tasker
Legend
January 20, 2025

@Typothalamus

 

I'm not an expert, but in this case, there shouldn't be too much creep - but the amount will depend on how many pages will be per signature - and pages will be flat - so I'm not sure why do you expect any problems?

 

As @James Gifford—NitroPress said - professional printer would expect a "simple" PDF - without any "extras" - and they should handle everything - they know their machines, etc.

 

Do you have anything "full spread" / on both pages? 

 

James Gifford—NitroPress
Legend
January 19, 2025

The very short form of the answer is: discuss this with your printer. Not a printer, not some printing advice you find on line, but with the firm/person who will actually put your project on paper and bind it.

 

That said, most commercial printers, especially book printers, do NOT want designers to try and tweak and outguess their print setup and apply things like creep (the small increase in inside margin to compensate for folding) or do any kind of imposition at all. They want clean, flat pages that are identically formatted (at least, as to margins) all the way thorugh, so their RIP and setup will exactly match the print process, imposition, signature folding, gathering, binding etc.

 

I'm not sure any commercial printer should even ask a designer to apply these settings and compensations. But ask yours for a definitve answer. (And ask the next printer of the next project the same questions, in time and turn.)

 

Designers only need to worry about imposition, creep, trim limits etc. if they are printing the project in-house, and then it's still often a matter of leaving such details to a quality printer's driver/setup/booklet utility.

Typothalamus
Known Participant
January 19, 2025

Thank you. To observe how the book will indeed function, including all the properties as to how the pages/spreads sit and move, and how text sits in relation to the inside crease, is it standard practice for offset printers to first produce a dummy for us, with the paper and all the chosen elements? I was going to have a digital printing shop make a dummy to review layout, which likely won't be/cannot be on the selected paper and won't be a highly accurate facimile of the physical book, but helpful for reviewing layout and proofing. Yet, would the offset printer typically be doing this as well – with their binding, on our chosen stock; and would it be print offset, or do they here default to using a cheaper digital approach for the one book? (The economics of offset printing a single book are surely absurd.)

James Gifford—NitroPress
Legend
January 20, 2025

Each printer, including single-copy "repro" shops, should apply their own adjustments that make the most of their printing format and tech... but a repro shop may not do anything with things like inner margin and adjustment. A commercial printer will always — or should always! — apply such adjustments to get the best, most balanced result from their precise printing methods and setup.

 

It does take some skill and knowledge at the design level, as printers who are not working with you as a professional partner will pretty much just print whatever you send, as long as it meets certain minimum values. (A true "partner" will have an account manager overseeing things and sending back recommended adjustments for margins, font, etc. — but that's pretty old-school/commercial-level accommodation, any more. For most printers, they will check and do their best, but you're on your own in getting the overall setup and esthetics the way you want them.

 

I'd just suggest that bulk printing is also pretty old-school; if you go through KDP or Lulu, you will get fairly precise print proofs as a step in the process and are only committed to one copy at a time. Unless you want/need 1000 copies or more on your doorstep, commercial print-on-demand is the better way to go. And it can be difficult to tell quality PoD from bulk trade printing; I suspect a lot of commercial books use short-run/PoD as the tradeoff between unit cost and inventory cost, and only the sharpest eye can tell it's not from a trade bindery.