interactivity : PDF, EPUB, in5 ?

[malarde]

Hello ☺️

I need to create an interactive document (with video, animations, links), based on a document intended primarily for printing.

Are PDF or Epub formats suitable?

It seems to me that PDF allows you to integrate very few interactive functions.

But with Epub, I have the impression that the interpretation of the file varies enormously from one application to another.

What do you think?

And I don't know not if this format can be hosted online easily while retaining all the interactive functions.

Should we go through in5?

I don't know this plugin but I understand that it allows you to generate an HTML5 file integrating all the indesign animations.

What about putting it on a website?

What are the other benefits of this in5?

Thank you in advance to those who will share their opinion, their ideas.

Have a nice day

[BobLevine]

I think, um, I know you need to make two documents. You can forget about PDF and depending upon the interactivity you want, EPUB may or may not work. It is not intended for online consumption. The Books app on Mac is very good and for Windows, Thorium Reader would be my choice.

As for in5, it's just plain brilliant and adds additional interactive features to InDesign's native capabilities. You can view the result locally or host it on webserver.

[malarde]

Concretely, when I generate a file with in5, do I end up with a .html that I can open in a browser to test it?

Is it not possible to have a single file, with a layout variant, and whose interactive functions will be invisible on the PDF export, but effective on the in5 export?
Do you think making two separate files is essential?

[BobLevine]

Yes to your first question. No, you'll never get this to work with a single file. Yes, you need two files.

[TᴀW]

If it's intended primarily for print, PDF sounds like it would be best.

Of course, if it's intended primarily for print, what do you intend to do with the videos and animation when it's printed?

Sounds like you might need 2 separate documents.

You can add a lot of interactivity to PDFs, but not really animation and definitely not video any more.

[Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com]

I need to create an interactive document (with video, animations, links), based on a document intended primarily for printing.

By @malarde

Your first sentence tells me you'll need 2 different InDesign layouts to produce 2 different types of files:

1. A press/print quality PDF without any interactions, videos, animations, hyperlinks, buttons, etc.  You could have a static shot from a video with a caption that says something like "View this video at www.whosie.com" but the video itself can't be placed in a PDF for print.

2. An interactive PDF or EPUB that does contain the videos, animations, hyperlinks, buttons, etc. 

Interactive PDFs can have hyperlinks and some other clickable features, but animations and videos don't work once the PDF is on the end user's computer. They may or may not play back, based on what software the end user has to open and interact with the PDF.  Therefore, I don't think any of us here would recommend interactive PDF for your file.

EPUB does a good job of handling everything you describe. Its code is based on HTML 5 and is recognized by many different readers — both hardware readers like Kindle or Nook, or software readers like Calibre, Apple Books, Audiobooks and Thorium Reader.  (Please note that for an EPUB to be viewable on a Kindle device, the EPUB file will have to be converted to Kindle's proprietary .mobi, .azw, or .kf8 file formats.)

However, all EPUB or Kindle files are designed to be "responsive" to the various technologies and the end user's preference settings. That is, the user will decide how large or small the text is on their screen. The device often restricts the fonts to only those allowed by that device, rather than the fonts you've selected in your InDesign layout. And the entire concept of a "page layout" or design is thrown out the window ... there is no page layout in an EPUB file. The entire content is one long scroll of text with graphics, animations, videos, etc. interspersed throughout. The EPUB will look different on every individual user's device, nothing like the printed version.

I think EPUB would be the best format to handle all of the different types of interactivity you describe. But making EPUBs is a long, tough path. It's more than just using In5 (as wonderful as it is) to end up with a file that will work across all of the different devices and reading programs.

Here's a great book to learn more about EPUBs: Word & InDesign to Kindle at https://www.amazon.com/Word-InDesign-Kindle-Professional-Guide-ebook/dp/B09HZB4NQS.  The author, James Gifford @JamesGifford is a community expert here in the forum and hopefully he'll chime in on this post.

Hope this helps.

—Bevi Chagnon

[malarde]

But if I make an Epub simply for display on the web, on a defined reader, and I have created a "static" Epub whose layout is not supposed to adjust automatically...

I don't I don't need to bother thinking about compatibility across devices or reading programs, right?

Would it be enough to host it on a site with a suitable epub viewer?
And if users want to download it, they would have a link to get the "basic" PDF...?

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

It is not quite an overstatement to say that there is no "suitable" or "defined" EPUB viewer. They vary so much that it is rare to find any two, even the nominally standards-based ones, that display a document identically. So any publication to EPUB has to be to a document optimized for one viewer (or one small subset of viewers), with the understanding that it's nearly impossible to force (or even encourage) readers to use a specific viewer, and that all those using other viewers will get varying results.

This is bad enough for relatively simple and reflowable EPUBs, which both adapt to reader and device and screen characteristics and can be adjusted, to some degree, by user settings. When it comes to fixed-page EPUB, which you imply you're using... fuggedaboutit.

And when you get to interactive publication with sound, video, animation, etc. — well, it gets worse.

EPUB is not your answer, here, and in a larger sense, neither is FXL EPUB. If you want fixed, print-like pages, use PDF; that's what it's for, and it's every good at the task, even on alternate readers from Acrobat. (Many third-party and nearly all browse PDF readers have crippling problems with the "fancier" features of PDFs, but do fine with the basic page display.)

IMVHO, the only way to do reliable, broadly compatible interactive documents is with HTML. So if you don't want to try exporting your doc (a modified source version) to HTML and tinkering it into shape with CSS adjustments and the like, In5 is your option. Its only real drawback is that it's somewhat pricey unless you're going to use it frequently. But it's the right tool for this kind of job.

[malarde]

But if the EPUB viewer is integrated to the website, this will be the same viewer for everyone looking this EPUB on the website, right?

And the problem of display variation will happens only if the reader downloads the EPUB and displays it with an other application?

Sorry if i say non-sense, I try to understand step by step with your precious answers 🙂

[malarde]

And what about the "static" epub available on indesign ? it does not prevent the redistribution of content?

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

I don't know of an EPUB viewer that can be integrated to a host or site. They are all local apps.

Almost nothing online uses server-side readers or display tools. Not HTML, not PDF, not EPUB. (Nor audio, video or animation.) The whole system is designed to send content files for local interpretation and rendering. It's a huge stumbling block, and frustration, that you can't control what app an EPUB reader uses, nor a PDF reader. The vast majority of complaints about someone's fancy-dancy PDF not working right stem from viewers — quite naturally — using the crummy viewer built into the browser or mobile device OS, or some third-party one they downloaded because it's "better" (or just free).

I come back to HTML because, after a decade of browser, extension and language wars, most modern browsers, even those embedded on mobile devices, are pretty consistent at presenting web pages as intended.

[malarde]

Reading you I realize that indeed, without in5 it's already possible to export in HTML from indesign...

So I quickly did the test and my document obviously looks nothing like the output 😄

I imagine that with in5, I will have an interface that makes rendering easier?

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

It is entirely possible to do well-formatted HTML export from InDesign, but it takes revisions to a (print) doc's structure and styles, and as with EPUB, being able to restyle the output using CSS is a huge help. If you have web design experience, it's relatively simple to transfer those skills to doing 'long documents' in HTML from InDesign.

In5 does all that, and much more, in a well-supported environment that makes clean export to HTML not much more difficult than export to PDF.

[malarde]

But... How the fonts are managed with html file generate from indesign (with or without in5) ? o_o The adobe fonts are they download from adobe on page loading ?

[James Gifford—NitroPress · Accepted solution]

You can specify both Google and Adobe fonts in web pages. The Google versions are generally a little easier to manage — at least, so I've found. The other solution is not to use defined fonts, but let each browser and user select its default sans and sans-serif (and monospace) fonts.

It is something of a mistake to try and make electronic docs resolutely model print docs. Every layer of forcing a hard layout, styles and fonts on a digital page imposes more overhead and, frankly, more things to break. I believe it's better practice to take advantage of each medium's strengths, and things like fixed-page export for inherently fluid media are a first bad step.

But fonts are trivial in this respect, other than that I'd spec Google equivalents for a number of reasons.

[malarde]

Ok, thank you, thank you, thank you !

[malarde]

Hello again 🙂

Thank you for your help !

To clarify my goal:
The idea would be to have 1 PDF in vertical format for printing + 1 online version in horizontal format with animations, photos that enlarge on hover...

And indeed, I don't know if for this I need to create 2 completely separate files, or if it is possible to have a single file with a layout variant.

It's true that I'm having a little trouble finding my way around because while doing tests I realized for example that with the interactive PDF, sometimes the video works, sometimes not... The same goes for the " buttons".
So I didn't know if I was misusing the interactive pdf, or if it was simply not intended for...

Epub

I already had the opportunity to create an interactive epub via indesign, it worked well on the Books application on mac.
But after updating my OS and native applications, I noticed that part of the interactivity of my epub (the color change of an object when hovering) was not displayed on the new version of Books.

So I have the feeling that it can be quite unstable from one application or version to another...

Concerning the "responsive" aspect of the Epub which can be problematic on a specific layout, it seemed to me that the "static" Epub option prevented the automatic resizing of my layout... This is not not the case ?

Anyway, as said before, I'm a little worry that the file will be interpreted too differently from one user to another.

And since the goal is to have a version that can be consulted online, is it relevant to make an epub?

in5
Concretely, when I generate a file with in5, do I end up with a .html that I can open in a browser to test it?

Is it not possible to have a single file, with a layout variant, and whose interactive functions will be invisible on the PDF export, but effective on the in5 export?
Do you think making two separate files is essential?

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

It is entirely possible to do dual-format docs, but in general that approach is best to use one source doc for a print PDF and an EPUB version, not including extensive interactive elements.

The differences between an optimal print layout and export PDF and an optimal interactive doc are great enough that I wouldn't try doing it from a single source doc. Dupe the print files, and build a robust online/interactive version using In5.