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camelbreath
Inspiring
January 10, 2022
Answered

Issues with small caps in Version 17.0.1

  • January 10, 2022
  • 3 replies
  • 1319 views

Windows 10, up to date / InDesign 17.0.1

My preferences for small cap proportions vary greatly from those who strike the fonts and set the defaults. I generally like a 85-93% ratio depending on the font. Setting that up in InDesign versions prior to the current version 17.0.1 was very simple, I set the preferences in advanced type preferences and when I selected small caps in the character dialog box, the results reflected the proportions I selected in the preferences panel.

 

This does not work in the current Version 17.01. When I select small caps, InDesign immediately displays the small caps in the default format which I detest. To type purists, this is probably like scratching fingernails on a chalkboard, but in this case, I am the author, photographer and designer, of the book I am producing, so I get my choice.

 

For example, the subhead, ONE MORE NEW FRIEND, as I prefer it, is is Minion Pro Semi Bold Condensesd with initial caps at 14 pt. and subsequent caps at 12.75 pt with a bit of additional condensing applied. I set this, highlight it and save it as a pragraph style. With that anf small caps selected when I apply it to a new subhead and InDesign displays the small caps in the default format despite my preferences.

 

My work around is to copy a previous subhead, paste it in place and key in the new copy which works OK but is time-consuming considering that on a 250 to 300 page book there's a lot of subheads which translates to a lot of wasted time.

 

After this information overload, my question is: Is there a way that I can automate my heads and subheads in my preferred small cap format? If it can be, that's cool. If not, you never know until you ask and all is cool.

 

Thanks in advance to those who know more than me - and happy new year,
Joe

    This topic has been closed for replies.
    Correct answer Peter Spier

    I think you could do this.

    First, set the paragraph style for the headings to be all caps, NOT small caps.

    If the designed cap size doesn't suit you for the initial cap, seems to me you should probably change the size of the font, rather than scale the glyph, but you could do either.

    Next, create a character style that handles the glyph scaling for the subsequent small caps.

    You can now use a GREP style or ordinary nested style to apply that. If the heads are normal case rather than title case, an ordinary nested style ought to work (I have not complely tested this, so I'm just outlining what I would try). Apply None through 1 character, then your small caps style through one sentence.

    For title case you can use a GREP style applied to (?<=\b\S).+?\b (which assumes that ALL words will have an initial cap. You could probably add a second GREP style (or maybe more than one) to specifically identify those words which would never be capitalized and apply the small caps to them too.

    3 replies

    jcb219461472
    jcb219461472
    Participating Frequently
    February 11, 2022

     I saw a lot of talk about work arounds, but as one person mentioned - fake small caps are not the same as true small caps and simply adjusting ration, point size, etc. will not correct the problem correctly (so to speak).  The real problem is that Adobe is quick to advertise how seemlessly Adobe fonts integrates with the Creative Suite, but this is a significant and notable exception that makes that claim false.  XD is a design tool marketed on the basis of its ability to create realistic prototypes.  To hamstring designers by not supporting full access to all the features of an Adobe provided font is inexcusable - having full access to all the features of an adoble font should have been considered an element from version 1 of the software, not an enhancement tabled until enough requests/complaints are made. 

    Imagine what it would be like designing "realistic" prototypes if another feature, like the spectrum of your color palette was limited to a Crayola box of 64....  I would argue that, for most designers, selection of typeface styles is no less important than color, layout or any other aspect of a design (and for many it is probably the most important).

    Adobe have you forgotten your origins - you've been asssociated with type since you were born.  Reorganize your priorities and give us full access to font features before more and more of us wonder if you are now a geriatric in need of supportive care instead of the trailblazer of your youth.

    Peter Spier
    Community Expert
    Peter SpierCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    February 11, 2022

    First off, this is the InDesign form, and the question was raised in relation to InDesign, not XD. That said, the problem is in the font coding, and unless you are using a variable font I don't quite see how you expect the user to be able to alter the coded font characteristics.

    jcb219461472
    jcb219461472
    Participating Frequently
    February 11, 2022

    apologies, thought I was responding to a post on XD - In Designl, of course does support full access to all font features.  Unfortunately, despite several years of waiting, XD does not.  I'll go post to the correct thread this time.  Thank you for letting me know my error.

     

    Peter Spier
    Community Expert
    Peter SpierCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    January 13, 2022

    I suspect, too, that you may be running up against the use of OpenType small caps -- real glyphs built by the font foundry -- as opposed to "faux" small caps -- reduced size ordinary caps used when "real" small caps are not included in the font.

     

    Not sure what you can do about it, though. I see this same behavior going back to CS6.

    C
    camelbreathAuthor
    Inspiring
    January 18, 2022

    Peter, glad to have you weigh in on this issue. Over the years your expert advice has helped me many times. My question this time. To set up my heads and subheads could I setup Font, Initial Cap Size, subseequent cap size, kerning, etc as a GREP function and apply it as a style? If so, how?

    Discclaimer: I don't even know enough about GREP to be dangerous, but my curiosity has gotten the best of me.

     

    Thanks,

    Joe

     

    Peter Spier
    Community Expert
    Peter SpierCommunity ExpertCorrect answer
    Community Expert
    January 18, 2022

    I think you could do this.

    First, set the paragraph style for the headings to be all caps, NOT small caps.

    If the designed cap size doesn't suit you for the initial cap, seems to me you should probably change the size of the font, rather than scale the glyph, but you could do either.

    Next, create a character style that handles the glyph scaling for the subsequent small caps.

    You can now use a GREP style or ordinary nested style to apply that. If the heads are normal case rather than title case, an ordinary nested style ought to work (I have not complely tested this, so I'm just outlining what I would try). Apply None through 1 character, then your small caps style through one sentence.

    For title case you can use a GREP style applied to (?<=\b\S).+?\b (which assumes that ALL words will have an initial cap. You could probably add a second GREP style (or maybe more than one) to specifically identify those words which would never be capitalized and apply the small caps to them too.

    E
    Community Expert
    Eugene TysonCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    January 11, 2022

    Typically - if you need to make an overall preference change to all your documents - you do this with no documents open.

     

    However, it won't affect any previously created documents, that will have the previous settings already setup and are hard saved with the file. 

    You'd have to make the changes in each file that you open.

     

    ---

    If it's not working as expected

     

    Try resetting your preferences:
    The easiest way to reset everything is to delete the InDesign preferences: as soon as InDesign starts to boot hold down Shift, Alt, Ctrl (and Apple/Cmd if working on a Macintosh). A dialog will appear asking to delete the InDesign Preferences, select 'Yes' on this dialog.
    Further info and instructions here if needed:
    https://helpx.adobe.com/in/indesign/kb/indesign-preferences-support-file-locations.html

     

    --

    If a document is not behaving well then try 

    File>Export 

    Choose IDML

    Open the IDML in InDesign
    Save the file as a new InDesign file with a new name
    See if the issue persists.

     

     

    ---

    Reinstalling rarely fixes everything - you can do a complete reinstall using the
    Creative Cloud Cleaner Tool https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-cloud/kb/cc-cleaner-tool-installation-problems.html

     

    --

    Rollback to a previous InDeisgn version

    https://helpx.adobe.com/download-install/using/install-previous-version.html#:~:text=Open%20the%20Creative%20Cloud%20desktop,down%20list%2C%20select%20Other%20Versions.

     

     

    C
    camelbreathAuthor
    Inspiring
    January 13, 2022

     

    Thanks Eugene,

    It did not occur to me that the problem might be an anomally in which case, resetting preferences is the classic "try-it-first" solution. Thanks for your reply.

    Joe

     

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