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Mark selection separate paragraph

Enthusiast ,
Sep 05, 2022 Sep 05, 2022

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Screenshot 2022-09-05 200156.pngexpand image

How do I mark selected text as separate paragraph without adding any spacing to the paragraph?

I want to add the spacings and styling only after I marked the selection as separate paragraph.

Currently the whole copy text is one paragraph because I removed all paragraph returns with an online paragraph return remover.

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Community Expert , Sep 06, 2022 Sep 06, 2022

ID has 8 different Break Characters all with different functions and invisibles. You can also assign different Key Commands, so your Enter key might do something different than mine.

 

A Forced Line Break doesn’t create a new paragraph, it just breaks a line within a paragraph. Here are the Hidden Characters for a Column Break, Paragraph Return (a new styled paragraph), Forced Line Break, and Discretionary Line Break:

 

Screen Shot 40.pngexpand image

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Community Expert ,
Sep 05, 2022 Sep 05, 2022

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Type a carriage return after the selection.

 

It sounds like you could improve your text clean-up process. You can convert multiple returns to one return instead of removing all returns. If you can clean up the text better you might be better off reimporting.

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 05, 2022 Sep 05, 2022

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Inserting a carriage return will include extra spacing.

I want to mark selected text as separate paragraph without inserting extra spacing.

Because I will insert the spacings afterwards, and save it to the paragraph styles.

 

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Community Expert ,
Sep 05, 2022 Sep 05, 2022

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Spacing depends on the paragraph style setting. Paragraph styles should be set up before you start to work. Never format a text without a style.

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 05, 2022 Sep 05, 2022

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So I think I have to do this:

"I want one increment space before and space after for each of my subheading paragraphs, except when they are at the top of the page.

When they are at the top of the page, then I don't want the space before, obviously.

Ah, I think I know what I am supposed to do:

Select the chunk of text, do its subhead styling, add the space after and before, then select it together with the space before and after, and define it as a paragraph style for subheads.

This is what you mean, right?"

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Community Expert ,
Sep 05, 2022 Sep 05, 2022

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A paragraph is always defined by a return. Spaces between paragraphs are defined in the paragraph styles with spaces befoe and after and between the same style.

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 05, 2022 Sep 05, 2022

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Before I removed all carriage returns from my text, they were there, but they didn't cause any spacings, new lines, not even ampty space between words.

That is how I know that you can have a carriage return after the paragraph without any extra space after it. 

How do I achieve that?

Put the cursor after the last letter of the paragraph and press enter, then press backspace?

 

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Community Expert ,
Sep 05, 2022 Sep 05, 2022

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Never use enter, press return. Enter causes a column break, not a paragraph.

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Community Expert ,
Sep 05, 2022 Sep 05, 2022

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> Never use enter, press return. Enter causes a column break, not a paragraph.

Willi, that's a pretty Mac-centric statement. Chris seems to be a Windows user, judging by the screen caps, and a standard Windows keyboard has no "return" key, only Enter on the alpha pad or the num pad. Enter on the numpad is by default a column break, on the alpha pad a paragraph break.

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Community Expert ,
Sep 05, 2022 Sep 05, 2022

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It sounds like you may have set some paragraph spacing by default. since you have only one paragraph, put your cursor in it anywhere and check the space before and after settings.

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 05, 2022 Sep 05, 2022

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There are no space before and after settings (yet).

So to explain:

I want one increment space before and space after for each of my subheading paragraphs, except when they are at the top of the page.

When they are at the top of the page, then I don't want the space before, obviously.

Ah, I think I know what I am supposed to do:

Select the chunk of text, do its subhead styling, add the space after and before, then select it together with the space before and after, and define it as a paragraph style for subheads.

This is what you mean, right?

Because i wanted first to mark the text chunk as a separate paragraph style, and only after add the styling and spacings and then click Redefine Style, but in that case I was unsure that the spacings will be imported into the paragraph style (no matter if they were selected or not).

 

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 05, 2022 Sep 05, 2022

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Screenshot 2022-09-05 204420.pngexpand image

But marking a chunk of text and adding Space Before and Space After does not add space to the chunk because it's not a separate paragraph because the whole page is a paragraph.

It seems that I just have to press enter to get my paragraph breaks befor and after the text marked for the subhead, do its styling and then select it together with the spacings, and save it as the subhead style.

Right?

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Community Expert ,
Sep 05, 2022 Sep 05, 2022

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Space before at top is ignored anyway.

I think you should book a basic class for InDesign, specific styles.

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Community Expert ,
Sep 05, 2022 Sep 05, 2022

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> I want one increment space before and space after for each of my subheading paragraphs, except when they are at the top of the page.

> When they are at the top of the page, then I don't want the space before, obviously.InDesign  ignores paragraph spacing at the top of a column (not just sapce before on the current paragraph, but also space after on the paragraph at the bottom of the previous column).

 

> There are no space before and after settings (yet).

If there is no spacing set (it may be an override rather than part of the style definition) there would be no added space when you add a paragraph break unless there is a difference between the assigned leading and the baseline grid and the paragraph is marked to align the first line to grid.

 

Honestly, I think your insistence on the grid is causing you to box yourself in. If your text is defined with leading values that match the line spacing you want to achieve you pretty much don't need a grid.

The only case for a grid that I find reasonable is to make it the same as the leading assigned to the body copy and set body copy to align to grid. This allows you to have subheads, block quotes, floating pull quotes or wrapped images with different spacings and your body copy will always fall back onto the baseline grid and align across columns.

 

> Select the chunk of text, do its subhead styling, add the space after and before, then select it together with the space before and after, and define it as a paragraph style for subheads.

Space before and after are paragraph attributes, not spaces that can be physically selected. If you pre-format text with the spaces, then using that text to define (or re-define) a paragtraph style will add the spacing to the syle, or if all you want to do is add the spacing you can edit the syle and add it.

 

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 05, 2022 Sep 05, 2022

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Should and can the Space After and Space Before be stored in paragraph styles or only the styling should be stored in the paragraph styles and you add the spacing manually every time?

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 05, 2022 Sep 05, 2022

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If I write in InCopy (I do) I will have to insert my paragraph breaks by hitting the enter button (I tested it my enter button creates a paragraph break, not a column break) for the visual order of the document, so if I store an additonal break in the paragraph styles, then I would have 2 breaks inserted, so I guess the Space after and Before (I checked they just add a paragraph break) should not bestored in the styles. 

 

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 05, 2022 Sep 05, 2022

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Because then adding a break in InCopy (to be able to see my paragraphs in InCopy) would add an additional break.

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Community Expert ,
Sep 05, 2022 Sep 05, 2022

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> so if I store an additonal break in the paragraph styles,

Paragraph styles do not contain break characters, only formatting information.

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Community Expert ,
Sep 05, 2022 Sep 05, 2022

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> Should and can the Space After and Space Before be stored in paragraph styles

Space before and after are formatting attributes properly defined in a paragraph style and should be included in the style if you want paragraph spacing.

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 06, 2022 Sep 06, 2022

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You told in your previous comment that paragraph styles don't contain breaks. And after you said that the paragraph styles should contain the space before and space after. But the space before and space after are paragraph breaks, the "P" shape blue hidden character, for me. So then it's not true that paragraph styles can't or shouldn't contain the space before / space after information (paragraph breaks).

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Community Expert ,
Sep 06, 2022 Sep 06, 2022

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Paragraph breaks are not the same as space between paragraphs.

Paragraph breaks cause text to move to a new line and start a new paragraph (which may or may not have the same style as the previous paragraph). You can also have forced line breaks, which move text to the next line but don't result in the creation of a new paragraph.

There are several other types of breaks available including column, frame, page, odd or even page, and discretionary line breaks (often used to break a URL across two lines without adding a hyphen).

Breaks are actually characters in the text that don't print. You can see them if you show non-printing characters. Space before and after paragraphs is just empty space, like the space between lines of text in the paragraph. You can thionk of it as something like leading applied just between paragraphs rahter than the lines inside the paragraph.

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 06, 2022 Sep 06, 2022

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In any case, hitting enter or defining a space after value has the same effect for me: a paragraph break:

Screenshot 2022-09-06 140137.pngexpand image

 

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Community Expert ,
Sep 06, 2022 Sep 06, 2022

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Make a style for the drop capped paragraph and a separate style for the body text with the spacing set to 0:

 

Screen Shot 36.pngexpand image

 

 

 

 

Screen Shot 35.pngexpand image

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 06, 2022 Sep 06, 2022

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I will, at a point, if it will be necessary.

At the moment, all my paragraphs bring in the drop cap automatically, because that is how I have set it up in my copy text (body text) styles.

I just add an override to the drop cap if I don't need it, maybe even less effort than working with 2 styles.

 

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Community Expert ,
Sep 06, 2022 Sep 06, 2022

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I just add an override to the drop cap if I don't need it, maybe even less effort than working with 2 styles.

 

No, you’ll need separate styles.

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